what’s good? got a vague idea of selling a steel frame and trying a cheap-ish carbon ride next year sometime.
i’m still no superfit ultra roadie, so longer headtube and room for 25s would be preferred.
thinking either ~400-500 for a frameset, also could be interested in a cheap (probably used) complete. otherwise a budget-ish build with 105 or rival/apex or maybe even veloce.
anyone here have relevant experience/advice?
I bought a full crabon build kit earlier this year that took a while to get all squared away, I’ll finish building it up and post deets here when I get back from christmas vacation.
Clearance for 25s won’t be a problem, but finding geometries with taller headtubes is going to be really hard. There is some more variety when you go up a bracket to the $750-900 range.
My factory agent was fairly cool once I started using MSN instead of email. She just sent me a $20 off coupon on Christmas Eve with a note:
[quote]How time flies ! New year is coming soon.
I would like to express my warm wishes for the upcoming Christmas Day.
Wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year of 2011.
Here is our Merry Christmas coupons. You can use it in your next order.
Thanks for your great support and kindness during our communication last year.[/quote]Awwwww…
factory agent?
go on…
unbranded ebay frames
alibaba?
I can get frames for ~3-400 depending on the trimmings
if you want a tall headtube, get a ridley. they can be had on clearance for outlandish deals from various online retailers. i don’t know why ridley closeouts are so hot, they just always are.
Dude I used to ride mountain bikes with was a co-founder of Reynolds. He did all the stress testing, among other things. He would get samples of pretty much every fork manufacturer, frame maker, etc. and torture them until they busted.
I asked him about no-name carbon once, he asked me how good my insurance was.
He elaborated a bit and said ‘some of them are first-run, some are rejects, others could have air pockets the size of dimes underneath the pretty outside layer and you’ll never know, it’s just too inconsistent and unknowable’.
Synapse carbon with apex complete bike $1700.
Yeah… It’s $1700 but it has a good build, tall headtube, proven geometry, AND lifetime warranty.
Ridley clearance deals are good because qbp handles their us distribution and gets lots of last years stuff to get rid of quick.
Toast, sorry I forgot to reply to your FB post. I can’t afford to upgrade my carbon bike just yet. Going to hopefully spring for a new group and stick with my cheap carbon.
DE-FRIENDED
DE-FRIENDED[/quote]
:dramacloud: :dramacloud: :dramacloud:
jk, i’m gunna poke the shit out of you.
As if catastrophic failure was a likelihood for a reasonably well engineered and mass-manufactured carbon frame.
If there’s an issue with the unbranded frames it’s most likely that they aren’t engineered that well, use cheap carbon, and hence aren’t as stiff and light as they could be. Alternately, “seconds” would most likely have blemish in the gel coat or some such.
Given the price difference between cheap carbon and good carbon, I imagine these folks are just using the molds they have to build up the cheapest carbon frames they can to reasonably decent quality standards. They’re likely really good for the price (I’ve read as much), but unlikely to be nearly as good as a frame with a well-engineered layup.
Isn’t it likely that any Taiwanese factory undertaking the costly production of carbon frames is also being sourced for the myriad of domestic and european companies? Yes, most of those companies have custom molds that the factory can only use for their bikes but theyre coming from the same factories not a grass hut.
Objection: Speculative
the money on name brand stuff goes into engineering the lay-up, higher quality weaves and QC.
i always see carbon forks for super cheap that say “made in the same facility that builds for so and so”
note they are never the nice monocoque stuff those brands stake their rep on, but lower end glue-ups
guru pieces their shit together, as does parlee and many many others.
i just find it hard to believe that a frame from taiwan is crap unless some sell-out company slaps their name on it. idk…
most of them seem to be the same mold, but like it’s been stated already difference is the weave. often theyre heavier or dont feel as stiff. doesn’t mean they’re going to break.
my cheap carbon bike is pretty flexy (but OK for someone my weight) and not super light, but adequate and still feels way better than anything else i’ve owned (not saying much. i haven’t had that many bikes.)
by comparison ive ridden brents much more expensive carbon bikes from teh bike shop to the food carts and let me tell you, feels like a rocket. i’m back with burritos in no time flat.
As if catastrophic failure was a likelihood for a reasonably well engineered and mass-manufactured carbon frame.
If there’s an issue with the unbranded frames it’s most likely that they aren’t engineered that well, use cheap carbon, and hence aren’t as stiff and light as they could be. Alternately, “seconds” would most likely have blemish in the gel coat or some such.
Given the price difference between cheap carbon and good carbon, I imagine these folks are just using the molds they have to build up the cheapest carbon frames they can to reasonably decent quality standards. They’re likely really good for the price (I’ve read as much), but unlikely to be nearly as good as a frame with a well-engineered layup.[/quote]
Sorry this is long, but this is complicated.
I’m not asking you to believe me, I’m passing on what one of the top ten bicycle carbon fiber engineers in the world said. Just passing on info from a dude who left the company he founded because they kept pushing him to go to lighter over safer.
This was also verified by Mr. Yamaguchi, who - believe it or not - hand-made the first generation of carbon bike frames for the USA Olympic team. He told us stories of having to glue patches on the frames between runs because the bikes were cracking and splitting down the middle (this was pre-monocoque) during heavy sprints. He kept up on the manufacturing side of things, could tell me which plant makes bikes for which brands, etc. He said ‘good carbon is very very good, cheap carbon is scary’. He was very impressed with my Giant OCR.
Great carbon is ridiculously strong. Hell, at my fattest I’m almost 3 bills and I ride a carbon roadie and the Mojo, one of the first carbon FS mountain bikes. I have no problem with carbon if done right, so no FUD from me.
Carbon bikes are like a cake, mushed together in a mold and ‘baked’ and the nature of the material hides flaws to the naked eye. You could get a first-rate knock off, or you could get one with a mushy left chainstay and a void at the head tube junction. You just can’t know because of the process. With metals, you can often see the significant dings that could lead to really bad stuff later. The way carbon damage propagates, you need a friggin’ X-ray.
Carbon frames are like silicon chips - make a ton of 'em, cull the batches with too many flaws, and charge enough to cover the waste. Those dirt-cheap frames are quite often the culled ones. Just like chips, good silicon gets thrown out because of a few bad wafers, good lots of carbon frames get remaindered with the bad. Sometimes, in China they’re a third-shift run by guys at another factory who stole the molds (google Kuota to get some juicy stuff on that) and do their own knock off.
If it’s Taiwanese plant, your odds are good. I wouldn’t get one from China, though, the rep I’ve heard from people that source stuff from factories there is they make great stuff when you watch over them every step of the way, but when your back is turned you have no damn idea what’s going on.
They also basically have slave labor and can’t be sued, so if you lose your teeth on one, tough shit. An American-based company with a lot more to lose overbuilds and overtests the shit out of these things. (Well, Giant and Trek do. Scott are super weight weenies and I wouldn’t throw a leg over one if I was over 150.)
TL:DR:
I basically said a much longer and wordier version agreeing with what you said.
But more detail as to why I’d avoid the cheap stuff.