atmo, i’d rather ride in the drops on a gnar CX course than deal with interrupter levers. I spend almost all of my time in the drops (shallow bars)
E richie wrote somewhere that a good starting point is 1 degree steeper sta, saddle 1cm lower, stem 1 cm shorter and bars about 1cm higher. Cross bikes are not made for all day gravel rides- they are for 1hr races in hell
^ and if they water braze on’s the bike will actually explode
[quote=1percenttruck]re: slamthatstem mentality hate.
i think, from a purely racing perspective, there is a bit to be said about entering the mindset of making incremental gains once you hit a certain category of racing (obviously depending on your genetic limitations and after you iron out the fundamentals of training and diet over the years) where working to optimize your position and get it as low as comfortably maintainable yields a good bit in terms of competitive advantage.[/quote]
to add to this thought:
i wrench a lot of race bikes. from the last year or so i have noticed a progression in fit in regard to level of a given rider’s fitness. a well set up bike is the exception rather than the rule in the 5’s. no set back posts on steep STA’s and slammed forwards saddles. lots of spacers and <90mm stems. as you progress to the faster, fitter end of the spectrum toward pro/1/2 you’ll see a lot of setback and long stems. these are the guys that have put in the saddle time to get to a higher level of fitness. it represents a great deal of planning and effort. they have likely seen a bike fitter (if not several) and spent hours talking to PTs trying to sort out the million little injuries that is getting fast. Often I wrench on local 1/2 masters racer’s bikes and they are often way more aggressive in their setup than even I am (an i’m pretty flexible). These dudes have been fast for YEARS. slammed stems/saddles are not a fad. They are the end result of getting fast, and IMHO pretty much a requirement to get a bike to handle properly.
milin we have a team of experts working around the clock to prove your roadie is set up hella derpy.
p.s. the idea that your buddy got a herniated disc due to fad slammage makes me lol, in my head head the doctor from the simpsons turns to the camera and says “DIAGNOSIS: SLAMMED STEM”
I can’t seem to get my left cleat as far back as my right. What the fuck is going on?
re: cross vs. road fit.
in terms of setback vs. not, my personal experience is that the 0.5-1cm of lowered saddle height going from road to cross also gets my setback spot on the money for where it needs to be*. i think the necessity of being a little further forward for a cross race is valid, but pretty subtle and understated as well in terms of actual measurement.
*part of the reason my saddle gets lowered is because of stack height on mtb pedals vs. road.
dougie makin me lawlz real hard.
everything he stated above is identical to my experience racing collegiate where your teammates range from ‘just learned to ride a bike’ to ‘getting ready to sign a contract’.
incidentally, there was also a fad on our team where the C and D men started copying everything the A’s were doing, and this included slamming. most of the C’s/D’s ended up ditching those setups 1-2 weeks in, for good reason - you absolutely cannot make a giant adjustment like that during race season and expect the body to adapt in one week. gotta do the homework first.
leads me to my overall thesis: the single biggest dogmatic truth about bike fits: fitting is a dynamic process. where your body wants to be relative to the contact points of the bike changes over time. what you ride during winter training may be a good deal different from what feels good on a routine race week in july (and you may have spent a good deal of winter ironing out your body to get it to the point where the aggro july position feels good). never fall into long-term complacency as far as setting and forgetting.
Either your shoes are defective(less likely) or you have some exterior issues that is throwing your pelvis off and canting you on the saddle (more likely if you are sitting funny)
Also, moving your saddle forward gets more weight on the front wheels which will improve handling and grip in shitty cx conditions!
And also a big hell yes to fitting being a dynamic thing- hard to explain to customers and the driving force for us not charging for fitting services!
i’ve actually found the opposite to be the case, but i think part of that is course/condition dependent. in our sloppy, muddy falls that oregon is so well-known for, i’ve found the best handling and stability comes from being able to sit back on the saddle, get back on the drops (hands closest relative to body) and big on the gear. different story on a dry, fast day, but i’m still sitting back and in the drops when i have to take a sweeping
turn.
however, i don’t adjust my setback to adjust weight distro - i leave that to tweaking bar reach/drop independently.
[quote=truckdoug][quote=1percenttruck]re: slamthatstem mentality hate.
i think, from a purely racing perspective, there is a bit to be said about entering the mindset of making incremental gains once you hit a certain category of racing (obviously depending on your genetic limitations and after you iron out the fundamentals of training and diet over the years) where working to optimize your position and get it as low as comfortably maintainable yields a good bit in terms of competitive advantage.[/quote]
to add to this thought:
i wrench a lot of race bikes. from the last year or so i have noticed a progression in fit in regard to level of a given rider’s fitness. a well set up bike is the exception rather than the rule in the 5’s. no set back posts on steep STA’s and slammed forwards saddles. lots of spacers and <90mm stems. as you progress to the faster, fitter end of the spectrum toward pro/1/2 you’ll see a lot of setback and long stems. these are the guys that have put in the saddle time to get to a higher level of fitness. it represents a great deal of planning and effort. they have likely seen a bike fitter (if not several) and spent hours talking to PTs trying to sort out the million little injuries that is getting fast. Often I wrench on local 1/2 masters racer’s bikes and they are often way more aggressive in their setup than even I am (an i’m pretty flexible). These dudes have been fast for YEARS. slammed stems/saddles are not a fad. They are the end result of getting fast, and IMHO pretty much a requirement to get a bike to handle properly.[/quote]
e-dougie, this is probably true, but think about it for a second:
being fast requires fitness to be able to actually be in that aggressive position. you can’t take a new rider and throw him on a race fit bike and expect them to be able to ride at all.
Also: my bike set up is kinda derpy partially because all of last summer I was bed ridden and unable to walk without assistance.
pic related: right after the accident still doped up on morphine back at the camp site trying to hop on my one good leg to go take a much needed piss. It took me about 10 minutes to walk to a pisser i could have hit by throwing a rock at.
That being said, hopefully when I pick up a bike I’ll be able to get the fit a lot better. Just checked the bike I’ve been borrowing and I have a good 3.5 inches of setback and about 4 inches of drop on a 115mm stem (which was the longest I have and it’s a 54 top tube. I could go to a 130 on this now, but I have been working on flexibility.
I guess my point is that you just illustrated the whole point nicely: pro fit is for pros. Fred fit has it’s place: for dudes just starting cycling or guys who are just out to ride centuries and be “CANSERW@RR10RZ” (which was me until 2 years ago when I did my first race?)
all this being said, I really need to go see a fucking PT. My back is still really fucked up since the accident. I really want to sue the fuckers who butchered me at the ER. I had a broken wrist and they sent me out of there. I couldn’t walk because I had cracked my pelvis, and they cut my clothes off of me and nearly sent me out into the street completely butt naked had I not begged for a set of paper scrubs. I was also stuck with a needle no less than 15 times before I passed out because the nurse didn’t know how to properly run a line for injecting dye for a CT scan. YOU DONT RUN IT THROUGH THE VEINS IN THE HAND. THEY COLLAPSE. I’m not a doctor but even I know this. I was doped up enough that I couldn’t speak properly to explain that to them, but I still felt quite a lot of pain.
sorry just venting.
i haven’t left my bed in two days.
fuck this flu. It’s nice out today and I just sold my old road bike for a new one. I was still at a 103 fever this morning so I’m trying not to do ANYTHING until I know that’s gone.
I’ll post pics when Montano does my measurements and we’ll see if my fit is still derp to the max. It’s kind of pointless going off of pics that were taken only a month after my accident.
also want to point out the picture you posted has the bike in front of a non-tarck approved background
we’re doing red bricks now
Holy Shit. “Ram’s Horn” bars. I always thought that was some dumb thing my dad always said, along with “gooseneck” and a bunch of other funny bike component names that I’ve since suppressed the memory of.
um.
major taylors?
thank god for clothing technology btw. MT looks like he’s living in the flinstones-era.
i’ve actually found the opposite to be the case, but i think part of that is course/condition dependent. in our sloppy, muddy falls that oregon is so well-known for, i’ve found the best handling and stability comes from being able to sit back on the saddle, get back on the drops (hands closest relative to body) and big on the gear. different story on a dry, fast day, but i’m still sitting back and in the drops when i have to take a sweeping
turn.
however, i don’t adjust my setback to adjust weight distro - i leave that to tweaking bar reach/drop independently.[/quote]
I agree with the reasons for getting the weight forward, but it also needs to be back at times (riding sand, mud bogs, etc…). Sometimes you have to let the front wheel go where it’s gonna go a little and make corrections from the back end of the bike/w some body english. Turn the bars too suddenly and you’re fucked. I suck at that still, but I’m beginning to get the concept.
On greasy grass though, dig that front wheel in as much as possible.
yep, hands back and big gears is the same for mud, sand and the pave, where you almost want the bars unweighted. Your bike wants to go straight, your legs make it go straight, trying to make it go straight with your hands never comes up millhouse.
[quote=1percenttruck]um.
major taylors?
thank god for clothing technology btw. MT looks like he’s living in the flinstones-era.[/quote]
woah, dat drive shaft
