# Framebuildin' **URL:** \ **Category:** Bikes\ **Created:** [September 19, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941 "2018-09-19T12:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 11:16am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/664 "2020-11-02T11:16:43Z")
mostly the BB drop puzzles me. I looked at the sequoia geometry and they have drop increasing as you go up the size range. Generally you would see the opposite since a smaller frame will usually get shorter cranks. ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/665 "2020-11-02T14:04:29Z")
> [@drwelby](#): > > So stoked to see you tread into these waters - I’d really like to be able to build AL frames one I finally get set up with a TIG. Do you have any TIG experience? Aluminum is easier in some respects IMO. More sensitive to cleanliness but it’s fast and the bead/puddle are much bigger and easier to see. I have an everlast 200DV, very attainable machine cost wise and distribution is through big box stores in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/gary_the_tennis_ball/32/10587_2.png) [@Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://tarck.cc/u/Gary_the_tennis_ball)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/666 "2020-11-02T14:54:55Z")
It would certainly be weird if it was the case. I think it’s a typo though. I referenced the other year and it was the same numbers but in the sensible order. I guess an intern spaced or something because the BB Drop lines up year to year if you switch the smallest with the biggest and so on. I think I will bring it down some though. ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/667 "2020-11-02T15:06:17Z")
The other thing I just thought of is that if you increased stack to lose a spacer but kept reach the same you will effectively increase the reach… though 10mm increase in stack won’t make much difference. Just something to keep in mind if you plan to use the same stem length. ---
**Author:** ![drwelby](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/drwelby/32/142_2.png) [@drwelby](https://tarck.cc/u/drwelby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/668 "2020-11-02T15:49:41Z")
> [@rancid\_burple](#): > > I have an everlast 200DV, very attainable machine cost wise and distribution is through big box stores in the US. Are you using the stock torch or did you upgrade? ---
**Author:** ![drwelby](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/drwelby/32/142_2.png) [@drwelby](https://tarck.cc/u/drwelby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/669 "2020-11-02T15:50:52Z")
@Gary_the_tennis_ball what wheel/tire size are you planning? ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/670 "2020-11-02T15:55:58Z")
I upgraded the torch and pedal through them. Up here there is a distributor that sells direct. I have a 17 sized air cooled flex head torch. I use gas lenses and #8 cups for pretty much everything. 1/16” tungsten for steel frames and 3/32” for aluminum. Ceriated or lanthanated on steel and lanthanated on aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![halbritt](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@halbritt](https://tarck.cc/u/halbritt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/671 "2020-11-02T16:31:06Z")
> [@drwelby](#): > > Are you using the stock torch or did you upgrade? a nice CK torch setup is less than $200. ---
**Author:** ![jimmythefly](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/jimmythefly/32/36079_2.png) [@jimmythefly](https://tarck.cc/u/jimmythefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/672 "2020-11-02T20:27:07Z")
> [@Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](#): > > Do any Eff-Bees want to peep this and make sure nothing stands out as terribly egregious? > > Changes from the base bike and reasoning can be found here: Is it common to ask frame builders about their tolerances? If you’re designing this with thin margins in some area I’d want to double check so you don’t end up with say not enough tire clearance or some other annoying limit. If this is for a 2x up front think about bottle boss placement vs. front dangler band clamp location, and maybe front dangler band and arm vs. rear tire. ---
**Author:** ![LASER\_BEIGE](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/laser_beige/32/152421_2.png) [@LASER\_BEIGE](https://tarck.cc/u/LASER_BEIGE)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/673 "2020-11-02T20:36:48Z")
Bro the front is a pusher The rear is the dangler ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/gary_the_tennis_ball/32/10587_2.png) [@Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://tarck.cc/u/Gary_the_tennis_ball)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/674 "2020-11-02T21:01:48Z")
> [@rancid\_burple](#): > > The other thing I just thought of is that if you increased stack to lose a spacer but kept reach the same you will effectively increase the reach… though 10mm increase in stack won’t make much difference. > > Just something to keep in mind if you plan to use the same stem length. You mean in the sense that the reach gets longer to compensate for the stem top of the headtube moving closer? Like the reach is “longer” as far as the stack:reach ratio? I’m not sure I follow but this sounds like something I should understand. @drwelby and @jimmythefly it’s built/modeled around 700x45ish. Will likely usually have 700x38s. 1x would be the plan for this bikes lifetime, but I’ll do the due diligence for _pusher_ for the practice ---
**Author:** ![drwelby](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/drwelby/32/142_2.png) [@drwelby](https://tarck.cc/u/drwelby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/675 "2020-11-02T21:18:36Z")
You slid the headtube forward so a higher point _on the frame_ has the same reach number ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/676 "2020-11-02T21:46:55Z")
It’s hard to explain but I think you get it. If you imagine the same bike with spacers and without, the stem moves forward as you remove spacers because of the headtube angle. So if the original frame has 387mm reach and you want to fit the same way but have 10mm more stack you would want the reach to be slightly shorter to account for the spacers you were running before. In this case it’s 3.2mm (it’s a right triangle problem). Not that relevant but if you were changing the stack more it would be important to take into account. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/gary_the_tennis_ball/32/10587_2.png) [@Gary\_the\_tennis\_ball](https://tarck.cc/u/Gary_the_tennis_ball)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/677 "2020-11-03T01:44:33Z")
Ahh yea I getcha. Changing the STA scoots me forward a little under 6mm from the original geo, so I think it’s probably pretty close to a wash. It’s interesting the bottom brackets are so high, but I never felt like it was a problem so I think I’m gonna round it to 67, maybe 68mm of drop and then call it good. Thanks for all the help! ---
**Author:** ![karl\_dandleton](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/karl_dandleton/32/177_2.png) [@karl\_dandleton](https://tarck.cc/u/karl_dandleton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/678 "2020-11-03T02:06:34Z")
but doesn’t the stack come back towards you? so increasing the height of the stack would slightly lessen the reach, but if you go to bottom of stem (assuming same location in space) wouldn’t you want slightly less reach? ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/679 "2020-11-03T02:37:54Z")
Yeah that’s what I was trying to get at. In this case reach is 387 on the original. If you want the new version to fit the same but with 10mm more stack, the new frame should be 384mm reach., ---
**Author:** ![karl\_dandleton](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/karl_dandleton/32/177_2.png) [@karl\_dandleton](https://tarck.cc/u/karl_dandleton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/680 "2020-11-03T03:43:08Z")
oh, no. that’s exactly what you got at. i just can’t read tonight apparently… ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/681 "2020-11-04T13:27:02Z")
So I think I’ve got a bad tank of argon. Since I started the aluminum bike I’ve been getting more and more unpredictable results on the practice stuff I’ve been doing. Last night at the tail end of an hour or so of trying to run a decent bead on some scrap while trying to rule out any other issue things just went to shit. Did some research and sounds like it’s a classic sign of moisture in the tank, gets worse the more you draw from it. Going to bring it in after work to swap for a new tank. Fingers crossed it’s that and not a busted welder. ---
**Author:** ![rancid\_burple](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/rancid_burple/32/3104_2.png) [@rancid\_burple](https://tarck.cc/u/rancid_burple)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/682 "2020-11-05T01:03:45Z")
Update: not the argon tank. Pretty sure my torch is fucked. Gas flow is there but I’m getting contamination somehow or another. Ruled everything else out. ---
**Author:** ![Face](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/face/32/77523_2.png) [@Face](https://tarck.cc/u/Face)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941/683 "2020-11-05T02:46:26Z")
Water in the hose? [Previous page](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941.md?page=33) [Next page](https://tarck.cc/t/framebuildin/21941.md?page=35)