Haha… exactly.
[quote=“bradencbc”]Petr5
The trail on most Track and fixedgear road bikes is the same. Mid 6 to 7. That whole nimble, dodging through cars nonsense is just more “dude zen” bull crap. I like riding a TRACK geometry bike on the street from time to time but if I was going to regularly commute on a fixed I would opt for a longer wheelbase and slacker headtube bike because it will handle about the same and the trade off of super snappy acceleration for a smoother ride is one I am willing to make.[/quote]
I think most people riding track bikes on the street are looking for that snappy acceleration though. I know I am. I’m not having anywhere near the fun riding my slacker CX bike on the street as I was riding the Concept.
Nevermind, found a calculator online.
Looks like the Bareknuckle has some of the twitchiest geometry out of any track bike, period.
Exactly, I rode one of my friends and it has cruiser GEO!
that and the frames are made out of rattily oversized aluminum tubing.
Fuck langsters
I’m a Langster (Comp) owner. AYHSMB!
What is the rake/ht angle on that Bareknuck?
I love riding my cross to work… but then again there are places to hop off road a park to cut through.
I ride a Langster Boston, painted white, with the bars and chainring swapped.
AYHSMB
But the sloping top tube is ugly in my opinion. Though I never notice it when I’m actually riding.
just ordered a tokyo.
I definitely enjoyed riding scott’s langster.
[quote=“bradencbc”]What is the rake/ht angle on that Bareknuck?
I love riding my cross to work… but then again there are places to hop off road a park to cut through.[/quote]
75HT/35mm rake.
Braden, maybe you can answer this question for me. If I have a track bike with a 75HT/32mm rake, and one with 74HT/37.5mm rake, I get 5.8cm trail on either bike, therefore the same ‘twitchiness’. So what effectively changes with the steeper HT/less rake bike vs. the slacker HT/more rake bike? As far as I can tell the wheelbase will be slightly longer on the more raked bike, but anything else? And how’s that translate to a steep, bumpy track?
I like the Monaco Langster, only because it reminds me of the Martini Porsches I loved as a child. If I ever came across one for cheap, I’d buy it and ride it with no remorse. But I’d never actively search out a Langster or go in to a bike shop and actually CHOSE a Langster over any other bike.
I bet they smell like shit too.
I had a langster for a minute.
I sold it to my friend and every time I ride it now I can’t believe how poorly it fits me. The stem is like 200mm.
[quote=“tarckatina”][quote=“bradencbc”]What is the rake/ht angle on that Bareknuck?
I love riding my cross to work… but then again there are places to hop off road a park to cut through.[/quote]
75HT/35mm rake.
Braden, maybe you can answer this question for me. If I have a track bike with a 75HT/32mm rake, and one with 74HT/37.5mm rake, I get 5.8cm trail on either bike, therefore the same ‘twitchiness’. So what effectively changes with the steeper HT/less rake bike vs. the slacker HT/more rake bike? As far as I can tell the wheelbase will be slightly longer on the more raked bike, but anything else? And how’s that translate to a steep, bumpy track?[/quote]
I wondered this myself for a while. So I went to Dave Tiemeyer and asked an expert. It’s like this. My Time road bike and CSK track bike both have a trail of about 6.5 and both are super stable. Both want to go in a straight line and don’t tend to “flop” when turning. These are qualities you want in a road racing bike as well as a track racing bike. One accomplishes this with a 72 degree head tube angle and the other with a 74.
The design difference is because on a track you have much greater g forces in the turns. Locating the wheel further under the weigh of the rider allows you to naturally apply more down force on the front tire thereby making easier to resist the forces that want to push you up the banking.
That simple.
A good example of how this long trail before other geometry idea is the Cervelo P3Track. They pop those suckers out of the same mold as the P3Carbon, 72.5 HTangle and all. Their bike is stiff enough in the front that it makes the importance of having the wheel more under your weight less important.
You have a Pista Concept correct? The trail on that bike is damn near perfect for a track bike. 74 degree with a 28-30mm rake fork is magic.
Interesting Braden. Yeah I noticed when looking at all the high-end carbon fiber track bikes that the pros are riding was that the HT was around the 73 area with more rake and I was trying to figure out if that was because norms are changing for track geometry, or if that favors the faster speeds the pros generate or the typical 250m wooden tracks they ride or what. But your explanation makes plenty of sense.
A trusted friend/cat 2 racer told me he had a 75 degree HT/37.5 Reynolds fork and switched it out for a new frame from the same builder with 74 HT instead, with the same fork, and felt like the change made the bike feel a lot more natural in tracking through the walls at Alpenrose, like it was “riding itself” in a good way. So I figured his 74/37.5mm makes about 5.8 trail and the same could be had with 75/32mm, and that got me to the question I gave you about the difference. The reason I ask all this is because I’m trying to figure out how I want to get my custom steel frame built up for Alpenrose (since it’s a friend/newbie building it and not a masterbuilder, we’re kind of in the same place as far as geometry knowledge and bike fit).
The Concept’s trail is like 6.8… way less twitchy than what my aforementioned friend was into for the track. I haven’t ridden the Concept at the track yet but I’m sure it’ll feel a lot better than the KHS which was 73 HT/40mm rake and I kind of had to “fight” the bike through the walls a little, which I got used to pretty fast but probably wasn’t the most ideal for my track.
Thanks for the answer.
I have ridden my CSK at t-town and of course at the speedway and 6.8 feels perfect for both in a variety of mass start and timed events.
You can’t go wrong with copying the Pista geometry.
Sweet deal. Can’t wait to try out the Concept at Alpenrose, hopefully it dries up here soon.
[quote=“jim”]I like the Monaco Langster, only because it reminds me of the Martini Porsches I loved as a child. If I ever came across one for cheap, I’d buy it and ride it with no remorse. But I’d never actively search out a Langster or go in to a bike shop and actually CHOSE a Langster over any other bike.
I bet they smell like shit too.[/quote]
I hadn’t seen the Monaco Langster, but I really dig that color scheme.
Is this worse than naming a bike company “Pake”? That still kind of blows my mind.
None of the city langsters make a lick of sense, like the taxi themed NYC one.
Good thing Nike has SPD Dunks that can match your Langster
[quote=“bradencbc”]I have to say I find it funny that people want to ride fixed gear bikes on the street but when a company comes along with a bike designed for that (slack angles, sloping toptube for standover, brake cable stops) it gets looked down at. I sell Masi in my shop and the Speciale Fixed is probably the best out of the box street fixed I have see this year. But riding fixed on the street is rarely about function over form is it not?
That being said the themed Langsters are disgusting. The regular one is ok but will be forever stigmatized as a girls bike in my book.
Braden[/quote]
Amen Brother
I’m still in full on shit-fit mode that the SPD Dunks only go up to size 12…