Tiagra 4700 is the same pull between shakes and clickers, FWIW.
Tiagra replaced 105 as the Grouppo of Champions with 4700.
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Iām so completely sick of trying to follow new standards of anything. I can barely function with the old standards that Iāve adapted to and sort of understand. Please no more.
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I totally get it. Time keeps on moving and I hate it. In terms of standards though there isnāt anything new here AFAICT - different lever shapes, finishes, only one cage length for the āroadā derailleur - but no new chains or cassette spacings or anything like that.
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the new Linkglide chain and cassette standard does look incredibly durable, for fewer failures under abuse, longer lubrication life, and >2x more mileage before 1% elongation
the key tech benefit of them making ā9 of 11ā cassettes is for e-mtb that want narrower chainlines, and small-wheeled cargo bikes where it keeps the dangler from hitting the tire
thereās already a bunch of confusing groups like this from SRAM, Microshift and Box
On my Katu Iām using the āBox Four Prime 9ā group thatās 8s with a 10s-style chain and spacing, using the longer chain from the similar SRAM EX1 group
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This is what Iām thinking about. Iāve got 10 speed 11-36 on my e-Dummy and I donāt know that Iāve ever needed the 36t cog yet. The chain line isnāt great in the low gears and the chain leaves grease on my water bottle cage. 11-32 9 speed that pushes everything a little more outboard would be nice but maybe not nice enough to buy everything over again
mill the little built-in spacer off the back of the 9-speed CUES cassettes and run 9-of-9 on your old 7-speed freehubs
speaking of: extremely amused that the Shimano engineers came up with a new universal non-series hub naming scheme that includes nomenclature for 7-speed-width freehub bodies, despite that fact that I donāt think theyāve made one since 1998 or so
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can you go ahead and make a shimano wiki already? bloody brilliant, albeit vanishing use case
DQ if the Cues cassettes are all spaced the same, and a 9 or 10s cassette is just an 11s with spacers on the back in place of cogs, then why not just make it all 11s? Why even bother having a 9s Cues drivetrain if an 11s is going to fit and function essentially the same?
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Can you imagine trying to get normies buying a $500 hybrid to count to 11?
Spinal.tap.amp.meme
Also 9s give you lots of room for a pie plate and your average Joe will have a harder time shifting into the spokes after throwing the bike in the back of the truck driveside down.
Really itās probably more about manufacturing efficiency than product differentiation
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Shimano gonna Shimano. Aside from this weirdness (and Iām shocked to be saying this) Iām really stoked about Cues if it delivers on what is promised. Later shadow Alivio/Altus derailleurs were just awful. The same goes for the abysmal high-leverage front derailleurs of Claris/Sora. The thought of no new bike after 2024 having this trash specced on it sounds good to me.
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You donāt think theyāre going to engineer the street level pushers to still work shittier? This would be a complete 180 for Shimano.
Also more generally costs more, the material differences between danglers is negligible but there are more cogs in the cassettes
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In my experience the shifters have never been the problem. Iāve hooked Sora and Claris shakes to better quality derailleurs and its remarkable how nice the actual shifter is. Hook an older 9-speed Ultegra derailleur to a Sora shake and the results are remarkable.
As long as the derailleurs donāt use the trash assembly of M3100 and the like, it could be good.
Only time will tell, but based on all the images of the Cues derailleurs I have seen, the construction looks better. Maybe Iām being overly optimistic here.
The front derailleurs that have info on the b2b so far (definitely just for hybrid/mtb) just appear to be slightly revised versions of Altus and low-end side swing models which have in the past been (to quote @Orc ) have proven to be perfectly cromulent.
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Looks like the Soma Further bottle which used to be advertised as holding 38oz but now says 36. Iād bet 34 is closer to the truth.
I have a Further and itās pretty janky. That Trek looks like it has a better cap.
Trekās bottles are pretty decent.
actually could use a couple of those for some events this year
Both the further bottles I have hold exactly 1040g (36.6oz) of water filled right to the top. Both types of tops are garbage, however, they are cross compatible with purist tops so if you get freebie 20oz purist bottles from events like I do you can use the top and recycle the too-small bottles.
Does anyone use 20oz bottles if they arenāt constrained by frame limitations?
Yes, in my Revelate feedbags.