Phil Hubs - huge difference?

^ what he said. I have phils and have yet to notice the ride difference. Unless coming from bearings that were total crap on another wheelset, there IS NO difference to me. I bought them because I liked the idea of having very reliable hubs (with something that is CONSTANTLY moving I think going the best is a worthy investment) and they look nice.

i’ve never ridden phils, but i noticed a HUGE difference between my formulas and my suzue promax sbs, so to say that no one will notice the difference, likely means you didn’t notice the difference. I can only assume it’s a similar transition for phils

Bullshit. Hub bearing friction accounts for much less that one % of your total resistance when travelling at cruising speed. Lets be conservative here and say it’s 1%. Now a 50% reduction in resistance from let’s say switching from Formulas to Phils would mean a 0.5% gain in efficiency. In other words, you’d cut 9 seconds on a half hour time trial. Now, if you want to keep saying that you can “feel the difference” on your fifteen minute commute, you’re just insulting the intelligence of everyone who posts here.

i don’t even like how phils look with they fat bodies

yeah i have a phil rear which replaced a formula and they dont feel any different. i got the double fixed variety though and that’s a nice upgrade.

It’s all mental.

Reminds me of the people who say their bike feels slower and heavier because they used different tubes.

Over on mtbr there are people who claim that: specialized uses really light tubes to make the bike seem lighter and faster but when you change your tire for the first time you will really feel the difference… on a mountain bike…

Guess it’s formula/open pro for me. Or Milwuakee(dimension)/Open pro.

What do you guys think about the Dimensions?

uh,

huge difference in cool factor

Formulas have terrible quality hardware. Yeah they can cast a hub body decently but that’s about it. I think it’s worth getting something better than Formulas, but unfortunately there aren’t too many inexpensive options.

hmmm.

The only way to make an accurate comparison is to have phils and formulas laced to the same rims using the same tires. I doubt anyone has done this since it would pretty much eliminate the reason for having two wheelsets.

The drag of the bearings is such a tiny part of the overall friction of the bike. Anywhere above 20mph airspeed, your body accounts for something like 75% of the total drag on the bike. Above 30mph, it’s 90%. If you want to feel a difference, wear girl pants and tight shirts, or get skinnier. Your massive leg muscles are canceling out the benefit of your phil hubs.

Formulas do have horrible hardware though. I would rather not own a pair if I didn’t have to.

The Formula axle is ugly and the nuts are known to break, but other than that, what’s wrong with Formula hardware? I’ve not heard of people cracking the hub bodies, and the bearings in my hubs were still spinning smooth after probably 10,000 miles.

Just what you said. The bodies seem fine.

Other than my vanity, I can’t find any fault with formulas. I had to defend them one time when I was in NYC. Trackstar had just opened and I was racing in central park with some kid who hung out there a lot. Another one of the riders was complaining that he’d stripped his formula rear. The trackstar kid immediately jumped on him for riding formula crap. Said that at trackstar, they don’t use that low quality crap. I laughed at him and said that not everyone can afford superbe pros and said that for the money they were great hubs. Had a bad impression of that store ever since. Never actually been in though.

east coast elitists can suck my tarcknuts.

The axle is ugly and the nuts are known to break! :bear:

Seriously though the locknuts are poorly designed and crack easily. The track nuts don’t really do their job with the captive nut after a little while, and they rust entirely too easily.

I’ve had a Kogswell hub on my desk for the past few months waiting to be built up, and I just can’t ignore the difference in quality of the axle and hardware. From what I understand they were only about $80 a pair. I talked to the Kogswell guy a while back and he didn’t really give me a reason why they were discontinued. I think it was just that Formula took the whole market.

The rust issue is the only one that I’ve come across, and that was easily solved with some rad Zipp stainless steel tracknuts that LBS had on sale for $10.

Anyways they won’t rust unless you fuck up the finish by letting your wrench slip.

i have phils laced to dp18’s & formulas laced to deep v’s… i feel no difference except in the wallet.

Just get Zipp track hubs, problem solved.

Its a myth that phils are more durable. I had a Phil BB that totally sucked…the bearings went bad after 1000 miles. Even if phils have more durable hardware (doubtful), if you factor in the cost for new hardware, the formulas are still less than half the cost.

If you can afford Phils and like them, then go for it, but don’t expect any real benefits. People upgrade wheels and tires and then claim its the hubs, when it probably has to do with better/new tires and better built wheels. People who claim that they can feel the difference between hubs are full of shit…period. Its all placebo. If you want to spend big bucks on hubs for performance benefit, get some quality looseball hubs and have the wheels built by a competent wheelbuilder. Sealed bearing hubs have more drag. Not that the performance benefit will be significant anyway.

[quote=“JACQUES”]
Bullshit. Hub bearing friction accounts for much less that one % of your total resistance when travelling at cruising speed. Lets be conservative here and say it’s 1%. Now a 50% reduction in resistance from let’s say switching from Formulas to Phils would mean a 0.5% gain in efficiency. In other words, you’d cut 9 seconds on a half hour time trial. Now, if you want to keep saying that you can “feel the difference” on your fifteen minute commute, you’re just insulting the intelligence of everyone who posts here.[/quote]

This is assuming that there is actually a friction difference between phils and formulas. Properly maintained, both hubs will have similar friction…and still not as good as looseball. You don’t see racers using Phil hubs, on the road or on the track…they are heavy and unneccesary.