Randonneurs (randos), use metric for distances; it'll make them feel like a longer ride: rando chat‽

Attempted my first 200 of the season after bailing on the first scheduled one of the season due to illness. A second illness came (covid) and was again feeling like shite in the wake of recovery, but this was the last 200 before things ramp up and felt a need to get on the bike. This route was super flat (500 m) so I felt if I just soft-pedalled all day I’d get this done and at least edge back towards getting in shape.

I recently had a bike fit which was a return visit to the same person to get current bike set up like first. I know I could probably just do it myself, but it’s covered by benefits and the original fit was really good, so why not.

The first 100k was pretty alright, low winds and a steady cruising pace of about 25 kph with a group of 5 riders. After that I was starting to fade, heavy legs (despite good hydration, electrolytes, food, etc) and starting to get a twinge of pain in my right knee which was concerning. Took a break at the second control and let the group carry on so that I could just ease through the rest of the ride solo. Unfortunately, new rider forgot to upload the updated route to his GPS was relying on someone else to get through the next 40 km. Reluctantly I said he could ride with me, with the caveat that I would be slow af. He proceeds to ride beside me for the next 40 km and tell totally inane stories related to nothing while I am riding stone-faced, in increasing pain and ignoring him as best I can so that he gets the hint to stfu and just ride. At the third control my knee is killing me, so I tell him I’m going to scratch and call for a ride. He thanks me for getting him there and rides off. You’re welcome. I WISH I had this sort of company:

I take a long break, have some food and muster up the courage to get back on the bike, and make it to 180 km where I finally cash out. My legs came back but my knee is killing me to the point where I don’t want to risk greater injury by pushing through just to finish this last 20 km. I get a pickup from a pal who finished earlier. Saw this place along that last stretch. A castle, “drawbridge”, two canons (out of picture) and… a trebuchet? Maybe @Salt can help with it’s ID.

Feeling pretty discouraged by the result. I think the fit should be right but the source of the knee pain is super frustrating considering the recent fit (which set up my other bike really well and did not cause this issue). The way I see it, there are three possibilities:

  1. New saddle is causing some nerve or hamstring issues that is pulling on my IT band or knee. I have some pretty significant tightness on my upper hamstring/ass but only on my right side.

  2. Pre-existing condition, muscle issues is causing the above. I had some bad tightness and muscle strains over the winter from some excessing walking, classic xc skiing and snowshoeing (all very linear motions).

  3. Fit could be off, but this feels less likely considering this fit has worked previously on other bike. I have been using the same cleats and shoes for some time now.

Gotta get this figured out if I’m going to take on the 300 in two weeks and then the Fleche the following week (~380 km).

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Sorry about that

I don’t want to discourage you from doing anything but are you sure you want to attempt a 300 when you didn’t complete a 200?

I felt like garbage with digestion issues, forcing myself to eat while feeling bloated. I dunno

Also most of my stories end with a punchline so there’s that

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Ballista.

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Thanks. I am certainly not going to thoughtlessly throw myself into a 300. Last year I did a couple of 200’s off the couch, feeling great at the end, so I know I have it in me. I am going to play with the fit and do next weekend’s populaire (120 km) and see if I can sort this out before the 300 the following week.

I went for a short recovery ride today and my first instinct told me I was too far forward in saddle position and the front of my left knee was sore though might have been overcompensating for my weak right knee yesterday. :man_shrugging:

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Slam the saddle back and get a 10mm shorter stem - That was my first thought looking at your bike

I’ve always wanted more saddle setback, always every bike - but every bike I’ve ever had has been ~73st

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Good advice. I did a 120 a few weeks ago with saddle 2.5 cm farther back. Legs and knees were good. The fit really brought it forward based on plumb-bob from knee to ball of foot/spindle location. I think you are right and I will knock it back some which will also effectively lengthen my saddle height that also feels a touch low.

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It depends though, bodies are different, my experience is different than yours.

I would suggest that you get your fit dialed before going into a ride like that though.

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I wouldn’t worry about KOPS as a measurement, and keep an eye on how your hip flexors and lower back stabilizers feel about a longer horizontal reach, some bodies don’t like being folded in half

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So I mentioned in another thread a really embarrassing health issue so I’ve been going through saddle trials. I started with an infinity and I couldn’t get it to sit right - apparently you’re not supposed to wear padded shorts but I don’t have any of those. Fortunately it was just 100k.

I’ve been messing with a skinny berthoud and I’ve got it close but I’m still not quite right. The saddle nose is tilted up and every now and then I’ll get a nice punch in the junk if I sit down too quickly.

All this to say, getting fit dialed can be a pain in the ass

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100% I have no desire to explode my body.

I’m fairly flexible, but but being a stringbean means my back can only take so much planking. More yoga would probably help. I’ll move everything back a by 1 cm and see how it feels on a longer ride later this week.

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I’m no bike sandwich but imo KOTS isn’t helpful. Conversely, this 12-part fit series with Neil Stanbury has been super helpful for me in articulating some of the finer points of finding a good position on the bike yourself.

Particularly videos #1,3,4,5.

TL/DW:

Saddle Height

  • Set your saddle to the middle of the rails, drop saddle down real low.
  • Warm up for a few mins
  • Try to be aware of how a point at the front and rear of your knee is tracking as you pedal.
  • Are the points moving at the same speed? Is the motion controlled on both aspects of the pedal stroke (power down and then back up)? Both legs?
  • Move up the seat 3mm. Ride for a few more mins. Repeat Observation.
  • Do this until you start to notice a hitch in your pedal stroke on either side, where the rear of the knee is a bit jerky and moving more quickly up. Your seat is too high here.
  • Drop saddle back down at least 3mm

Saddle Fore / Aft
This really opened my eyes - Instead of just talking about position over the bike / balancing weight (or finding the place where you can feel yourself able to make power at 12 o-clock), Neil mentions that an ideal fit is about equalizing the pedaling load over both your quads and hamstrings (top and bottom).

So same type of test as above

  • Note: Maybe easier to do this on a longer ride with real efforts where you can really feel your legs.
  • Start with the saddle slammed
  • Warm up. Ride a few mins under load
  • Try to be aware of which muscle group is primarily activated
  • Slide saddle ~5mm every few minutes and try to find the point of equal load.
  • SMP is particularly helpful here because in theory saddle height doesn’t appreciably change sliding fore/aft.

Once you’ve got a ball-park setback, repeat saddle height test with this new setback.

Nothing works for everyone, but I was close to throwing my clippy-shoes out the window and going back to flat pedals (maybe I still will?), but after going through this process I feel like I finally made some progress on setting up my Strael (and also understanding what changes in saddle height and setback actually feel like.)

Good luck!

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Dave Kirk also has a good write up (atmo) about ignoring KOPS and setting it based on balance. This method has worked well for me on curly bar bikes.

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I also like dk’s way

That’s what is currently missing from my system

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Finished the bc randos 300 on Saturday.

I did the hard version, 327 km with extra gravel climbing. My club started doing this and it’s pretty fun, organizers get to have a ride with all the hard stuff that they’re worried people will complain about added separately. You get no special credit whatsoever for doing the hard mode, it has identical controls with easy mode, and I’m pretty sure it’s not acp sanctioned at all.

My dream fast sub12 time was obliterated by losing my bag stash on a high mountain dirt road. I left it at km 7 sign, then got super confused on the way down after passing km 5. Then i climbed back up and down a few times looking for it while bonking and getting very cold. Turns out, that road has ascending and descending km markers :grinning:. After that i ate too much and still felt bad for hours.

No matter! A good time had by all. I had new aerobars and after recovering from bonk and borderline hypothermia i was able to go fast on the flats and headwinds. Up in the mountains the views were amazing, and there were rhodos, late season pink blossoms and magnolias everywhere.

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Thanks y’all for the help, really appreciate it!

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I used to have this problem where my legs would just die 1.5 to 2 hours into a road race, and I knew I could ride longer than that as I had done the training. It turned out that I was creeping forward on my saddle and blowing out my quads. I worked it out on a 3 day tour when a friend gave me a foam roller in the evening. Quads were completely hammered and the hammies were fresh…

When I had good TTing form I could just move my butt the tiniest amount to change the balance back and forward from quads to hammies to rest the quads a bit, altho you can get away with it in TT’s cos you rarely go over 60 mins.

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I feel like I can only engage my hamstrings with foot retention which is a bummer because I like flat pedals. can this be fixed with saddle position?

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More setback should do that, assuming your feet remain relatively in the same position on the flat pedal when you adjust the saddle position.

While riding the cagro bike setup smaller for 'sup i’ve also noticed the sensation of more hamstring / glute while purposefully pedaling with mid-foot on flat pedals

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I saw SIR wrapped their brevet week over the weekend. Anyone every done this? Is it as hard as it sounds?

Sat-200k
Sun-300k
Tues/Wed-600k
Fri-400k

This seems very hard. I’ve done back to back spirited 200ks and was pretty toast for several days after.

I’ll say that yes 900 miles in a week is kind of a lot of biking. Maybe too much? Not for me to decide, but something to ponder.