# Tonic Fab Supernauts and bickering... **URL:** \ **Category:** Bikes\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858 "2008-11-14T16:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Whippin\_Skidz](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/w/65b543/32.png) [@Whippin\_Skidz](https://tarck.cc/u/Whippin_Skidz)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/101 "2008-11-22T23:41:08Z")
I like the headtube/headset. I actually like the whole frame/fork, even though I don’t trust half links. Either way, thanks for coming here and sharing with us. That says a lot. Obviously not everyone is going to like every bike out there, but it’s nice to have the man behind the frame come and explain why his frames are the way they are. ---
**Author:** ![Bearpants](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/bearpants/32/705_2.png) [@Bearpants](https://tarck.cc/u/Bearpants)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/102 "2008-11-22T23:49:59Z")
tonicfab, the fact that you have come here and waded through our miles and miles of bullshit to explain, very clearly, all aspects of your bike that we misunderstood says a lot about you and company. your frames are still not my thing, but i’d have no problem recommending them to a friend after this. ---
**Author:** ![zombie](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/z/6bbea6/32.png) [@zombie](https://tarck.cc/u/zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/103 "2008-11-23T00:52:36Z")
The frame builder seems not so bad (I don’t have the interest to dive into any posts that are that dense about these bikes, though.) But this Kabuki guy is a fucking idiot of the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![conor](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@conor](https://tarck.cc/u/conor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/104 "2008-11-23T17:13:30Z")
> [@aek](#): > > tonicfab, the fact that you have come here and waded through our miles and miles of bullshit to explain, very clearly, all aspects of your bike that we misunderstood says a lot about you and company. your frames are still not my thing, but i’d have no problem recommending them to a friend after this. ---
**Author:** ![blickblocks](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@blickblocks](https://tarck.cc/u/blickblocks)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/105 "2008-11-23T18:59:18Z")
Tonic Fab, I think it’s interesting that you are using the Orbit headset but with your own top cap. Can you post a picture of the whole front end setup, up close? The direction that frame design is going is interesting, it seems that seat tubes and head tubes are getting shorter, and seat posts are getting longer. Did this start because track racers wanted smaller and stiffer triangles, or because standover became an issue when they were taken off the track? ---
**Author:** ![Timarchylime](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/timarchylime/32/61940_2.png) [@Timarchylime](https://tarck.cc/u/Timarchylime)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/106 "2008-11-23T23:55:58Z")
From what I can tell, the main reason is to ride a slightly smaller frame. I’ve seen many good racers with several cm of spacers under a rising stem and massive amounts of post. But I also blame the manufacturers for following the trend of long top tubes. To get a tight ride on a modern stock bike, you pretty much have to ride a size too small or use a \<90mm stem. I’m sure it works great for people with long torsos. Not so great for people like me. Hopefully it is just a trend and they’ll grow out of it soon. The standover issue I think is a stretch. If you are a good rider, standover (within reason) shouldn’t be that much of a concern. Bikes should fit while you’re riding them, not while you are standing over them. ---
**Author:** ![TonicFab](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@TonicFab](https://tarck.cc/u/TonicFab)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/107 "2008-11-24T06:17:13Z")
Something I’ve always aspired to do with Tonic is to communicate with people like they are adults. I don’t expect everyone to like our bikes, but I do appreciate this forum for giving me a chance to explain who we are and why we do what we do. > [@blickblocks](#): > > Tonic Fab, I think it’s interesting that you are using the Orbit headset but with your own top cap. Can you post a picture of the whole front end setup, up close? The direction that frame design is going is interesting, it seems that seat tubes and head tubes are getting shorter, and seat posts are getting longer. Did this start because track racers wanted smaller and stiffer triangles, or because standover became an issue when they were taken off the track? I posted this photo a few pages back. Besides the cap, our headset also includes an upper press fit cup, and of coarse our HT. For reference, the head tube upper ID is 42mm compared to 34 for a standard 1.125" headtube. ![](http://www.tonicfab.com/uploaded_images/SN_HS_1-745993.jpg) As for the popularity of “compact” frames…it’s hardly new. I think the first “compact” road frame I saw was at least 12 years ago. The Supernaut has a slightly sloping top tube for a few reasons. One, I like the way it looks. Two, it does increase stand over. Three, running more post out of frame is good way to increase the comfort of a bike. A seat post is going to move a lot more than frame ever possibly could. Bounce up and down on a Moots Ti, or Easton Carbon seat post sometime for a radical demonstration of this. Whatever lateral stiffness and weight savings is achieved with a slightly sloping TT is too tiny to really take into account. That said, we have, and can build SN’s with level TT’s. -L ---
**Author:** ![blickblocks](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@blickblocks](https://tarck.cc/u/blickblocks)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/108 "2008-11-24T07:58:42Z")
I’m not really talking about compact geometry…at least I don’t think I am. I just don’t know what the hell is going on with my bike or “real” track bikes. ![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/blickblocks/DSC_0175.jpg) ![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/blickblocks/Picture3.png) ![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/blickblocks/Picture4.png) ![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/blickblocks/million-dollar-koga-bicycle.jpg) I don’t know much about track racing, but does this have anything to do with it? ![](http://www.sportpaleis-alkmaar.nl/ek2007/images/nikiterpstra.jpg) Low headtubes for aerobars? Why would they have such stupidly long top tubes then? Don’t you need shorter stems typically with aerobars? Someone who actually races on a track, help me out. ---
**Author:** ![pinkbaby](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/58f4c7/32.png) [@pinkbaby](https://tarck.cc/u/pinkbaby)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/109 "2012-03-28T09:44:30Z")
here is some more info about it [http://www.dotmmo.com/the-supernauts-8154.html](http://www.dotmmo.com/the-supernauts-8154.html) ---
**Author:** ![oogens](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/oogens/32/83087_2.png) [@oogens](https://tarck.cc/u/oogens)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 10:39am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/110 "2012-03-28T10:39:28Z")
lol tarckeology comes back again with more gems from the past ---
**Author:** ![jr1](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@jr1](https://tarck.cc/u/jr1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/111 "2012-03-28T13:20:00Z")
lol even back then I was bragging about my Serotta (which I own) ---
**Author:** ![oogens](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/oogens/32/83087_2.png) [@oogens](https://tarck.cc/u/oogens)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/112 "2012-11-13T08:17:02Z")
hmm i never thought of it that way before ---
**Author:** ![timberland\_boots](https://static.tarck.cc/user_avatar/tarck.cc/timberland_boots/32/659_2.png) [@timberland\_boots](https://tarck.cc/u/timberland_boots)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/113 "2012-11-13T18:40:51Z")
Wow, tarck was so much nicer back in 2008 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Winget](https://static.tarck.cc/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@Larry\_Winget](https://tarck.cc/u/Larry_Winget)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858/114 "2012-11-13T19:05:29Z")
[http://www.tonicfab.com/buy.php](http://www.tonicfab.com/buy.php) Now $1500. But it’s all about the monstercross now guize. Tarck bikes are so 2008. ![](http://tonicfab.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/img_1169.jpg) [Previous page](https://tarck.cc/t/tonic-fab-supernauts-and-bickering/10858.md?page=5)