I wonder about this as well. Can someone clarify?
yeah seems like involuntary manslaughter would fit this killer pretty well.
Holy fuck that story gave me goosebumps. Tragic.
how the fuck does something like this happen “by accident”?
I too was wondering about how it would escape manslaughter charges? But I know little about the justice system.
This story and that picture just ruined my day. That little girl has to live the rest of her life knowing that at seven her parents were killed by what was seemingly a reckless driver who walked away with a clean record. I’m glad that there is an investigation in progress. While I do agree with the fact that sometimes things completely out of the driver’s control can happen, this definitely sounds like reckless driving.
This kind of terrifies me. I’ve already been a little edgy when riding because I had a truck rev it’s engine at me the other night while stopped at a light and when it turned green he was edging towards me and almost ran me off the road, which scared me. A lot. Luckily I hit my brake and he sped off. That was obviously a case of a driver hating cyclists. I can’t even imagine a situation like this though. Especially around a college campus, where there is, unfortunately, many drunk drivers.
My take…
Some one over-reacted to swerving for some reason (drifting towards the center, off the side, around a squirrel, etc etc.) and the vehicle fishtailed down the road (and off it) until hitting the cyclists. I can see how it could be an accident… but there are many cases where an “accident” results in charges of some sort. Heck… no mention of a “failure to control vehicle” which is generally the charge in “accidents”.
There are MANY people who simply can’t control a vehicle in emergency situations. It would be nice for everyone to have evasive maneuver training, I don’t think that will ever happen. I’'ve spent plenty of time on a race course, and can control a vehicle on the road much better for it (IMO). Simple fact… many people freak when behind the wheel.
BTW, the girl picture is truely sad… the picture of the truck made me cringe/whince
[quote=daedelus]That picture made me cry.
Not to get too far off topic, but this is how I feel about all drivers. Even people that drive “safely” can kill people due to circumstances completely beyond their control. That risk is unacceptable, atmo.[/quote]
which is exactly why i don’t drive. the idea of being able to ACCIDENTALLY kill a family of five terrifies me! i wish there was a way to make driving more of a privilege, because most people shouldn’t be able to have that much control.
[quote=Uncle Spam]I too was wondering about how it would escape manslaughter charges? But I know little about the justice system.
This story and that picture just ruined my day. That little girl has to live the rest of her life knowing that at seven her parents were killed by what was seemingly a reckless driver who walked away with a clean record. I’m glad that there is an investigation in progress. While I do agree with the fact that sometimes things completely out of the driver’s control can happen, this definitely sounds like reckless driving.
This kind of terrifies me. I’ve already been a little edgy when riding because I had a truck rev it’s engine at me the other night while stopped at a light and when it turned green he was edging towards me and almost ran me off the road, which scared me. A lot. Luckily I hit my brake and he sped off. That was obviously a case of a driver hating cyclists. I can’t even imagine a situation like this though. Especially around a college campus, where there is, unfortunately, many drunk drivers.[/quote]
I really wish she will beat this fear of cycling she will probably form in her head, then become a world champion cyclist
[quote=Haagenize]
I really wish she will beat this fear of cycling she will probably form in her head, then become a world champion cyclist[/quote]
I was thinking about the fear that she is most certain to form of cycling. It’s sad to think about a child who cannot go out and enjoy riding bikes around her neighborhood with her friends. I know that for myself, that was one of my favorite things to do as a kid (still a kid, younger kid).
Different states have different regulations. In the two states in which I’m very familiar with the CJ system (NY and ND) this would be considered anything from Assault to Manslaughter depending on the scenario.
I’m reading Texas Penal code right now just to make sure my data is right.
Standby.
In Texas (which has some weirdo Penal Codes).
It appears that this individual could easily be charged with
Manslaughter under Title 5
Sec. 19.04. Manslaughter.
(a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree
Reckless as defined by the Texas Penal Code under Sec. 6.03. Definitions of Culpable Mental States.
© A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct
or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and
unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a.
nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an
ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actors standpoint.
So what that means is simply the Prosecution would need to prove that a normal individual would understand the risk of such driving and not do it. Again, I don’t know the circumstances (like if they dropped something or whathaveyou) so there may be other issues.
They need to prove the defendants Mens Rea (or state of mind) meaning was the crime intentional, reckless, etc.
And then the Actus Rea which would be the act of commission or in this case hitting the cyclists.
The Defense could easily argue however that the driver may not have had a reasonable duty to expect a cyclist to be on the shoulder etc. and they would likely use that as their defense, and it may well be justifiable.
eye for an eye
Eye for an eye is bullshit and will never lead to a peaceful society.
There really isn’t much accountability in this country around the operation of a motor vehicle. It’s effectively considered a right rather than a privilege and a necessary one at that. In most places, it’s impossible to function without one and as such, the government is compelled to permit people without the necessary skills to continue to operate a motor vehicle. These leads to a lot of accidents. Fortunately, there’s a relatively small ratio of fatalities in those accidents thanks mostly to the NHTSA’s focus on vehicle safety features which started in the 70s. When a motorist collides with a non-motorist, it’s usually a non-event. Not a big deal. When a motorist collides with something else, it’s a very big deal and if there are other persons involved not strapped into metal air-bagged cage, then it usually leads to death and serious injury.
People really just don’t understand that their extraordinarily convenient means of transportation causes great harm to society. This problem will never get resolved until people gain that understanding. We can’t just regulate motorists. The politicians that do will face career suicide as a result. People are very, very attached to their cushy couches that take them wherever they want to go.
quote=EivlEvo A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct
or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and
unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a.
nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an
ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actors standpoint.[/quote]
Based on what I’ve read, proving “gross deviation” would be difficult here. This is why I am baffled.
[quote=halbritt]
Based on what I’ve read, proving “gross deviation” would be difficult here. This is why I am baffled.[/quote]
Well… I think proving gross deviation wouldn’t be problematic based on the alleged fact that the vehicle was off of the road and struck the cyclists while coming back onto the road at ~70mph. I feel like I could get a jury to be sympathetic there. But you’re correct in suggesting its difficulties since the Prosecution needs to meet the burden of proof which in this case is Beyond a reasonable doubt.
However, that is the maximum in which I could see charges filed. And as a possible future law enforcement officer (ideally one in an aircraft) that would be what I would charge them with. Its then up to the defense and prosecution to plea it down. Even still, assault could easily be met etc. Why this officer elected to not file charges is baffling? I question what the full details of the story are.
This country is about to see some political suicide. You should all know that the way to change this is to vote. The reason that driving is seen as a right and not a privilage and the tests are easy is simply because the elderly are the voting majority. This is problematic for a number of reasons.
On the other hand… kids are stupid. What can you do? (regarding voting, not accidents)
edit: fucking internet at hector international.
edit: fucking internet at hector international. x3
aaaaaaaaaand x4.
Someone can delete these.
It’s not just the elderly, it’s the culture. I got into a yelling match the other day with some friends that live in the 'burbs and were complaining about parking in SF. I told them that nobody in SF wanted them to drive their car into the city and their response was unexpectedly indignant. “How else am I suppose to get to X.” Where X is “the show” or “the restaurant” or “the bar” or whatever. My answer was that they should stay home and not treat other cities like their own personal disneyland.
It’s not just the elderly, it’s the culture. I got into a yelling match the other day with some friends that live in the 'burbs and were complaining about parking in SF. I told them that nobody in SF wanted them to drive their car into the city and their response was unexpectedly indignant. “How else am I suppose to get to X.” Where X is “the show” or “the restaurant” or “the bar” or whatever. My answer was that they should stay home and not treat other cities like their own personal disneyland.[/quote]
You don’t need to tell me. I come from a city (buffalo, NY) and now live in grand forks, ND. Lots of motorist entitlement/bike hate. I mean I think its everywhere, but its shocking how few people understand traffic laws fully. Some of the other people that I took my EVOCs course with had no concept of why the pedal was vibrating during the ABS maneuvers.
Shocking.