God, what does good school even mean.
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In California, that’d be a private school.
You’re right… but that true everywhere. Good schools are schools without poor people… and I just want us to be clear on that. It’s not a difference in teachers, leadership… or even resources…. It is the absence of poor students and the presence of wealthy ones.
The fancy kids in my district that can’t palate catholic school take a ferry to an island of white people to go to their very normal public school but without minorities… they have better test scores than us… they have like 14% free and reduced lunch… the building is nice……
They probably do learn more because their students aren’t poor.
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as a non educator I disagree, good schools are those that maximise educational achievement and enrichment and have minimal disruptions in the form of behaviour or safety problems from students
I don’t care if the students are rich or poor. I do care if they get in the way of my kid learning what they need and want
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Consider a cross examination between local wealth and disciplinary actions taken in schools and you might be surprised at the inverse correlation.
Schools with few barriers and disruptions and few discipline problems are almost certainly schools with few poor students. Or they’re charter schools where they’re allowed to just kick out any kids that they don’t like.
Kids that aren’t poor still have problems, but they’re much less likely to become a problem in the learning environment.
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that may be true, but my point is that problem kids are problems regardless of their SES, and good schools are those that have few problems. any correlation that exists is incidental
In the context of the discussion about what drives parents to suburbs, I’m using the term ‘good schools’ to mean the ones parents see on the top of lists of good schools, probably from US News and World Reports. This is what they’re looking to when their kid gets to be like 2 or whatever and they start thinking about where the kid will be going to school and what the options are.
Having moved to one of these good school districts and with a wife who teaches in one of the schools, yes it is a scam. They juice the numbers by strongly encouraging enrollment in AP classes by kids who are entirely unqualified to be there, etc. But if I moved here from somewhere for the schools and didn’t have all the behind the scenes info I have, I would probably just think they were great because confirmation bias.
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No it’s not… it’s much simpler to attain what you are describing when only a handful of students have childhood trauma…. Additionally it’s much easier to create a culture of learning that reduces behavior incidents when the vast majority of your students see a path for themselves through education into a meaningful future because their families success is supported by that narrative.
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both of your points are true and logical, but that’s not my point— what I’m saying is the why is unimportant. any kid whose behavior disrupts other kids’ ability to learn is a problem. not saying it’s that kid’s fault, not arguing that there aren’t generational, structural, economic, or other factors at work. just that problem kids make schools worse by making it harder for other kids to learn
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We get your point. But we feel that the why is extremely important for anyone who wants to improve this system. Most parents just want to get their own kid through and then it could all burn down for all they care. But teachers have a different perspective.
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Good schools need good teachers. Committed and engaged educators is the be all and end all. Good educators don’t hang around in schools with problems. They burn out and move on. I have several friends who teach in the Richmond city schools or the surrounding counties. Lack of pay and lack of success in managing “problem” students is the common complaint. Problems with bureaucracy are big on the list too.
All feel that it’s an intentional thing on the part of school governance to slowly destroy public education in the area. I’m inclined to trust them.
It is almost like our entire public education is slowly being dismantled by the nihilists in government.
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I’m just gonna talk about the scene in Washington in response.
At my school, which by all accounts is a challenging place to work has multiple PHDs, most teacher have MAs and are national board’s certified (this actually means something), and they work tirelessly to support kiddos and improve their teaching. We have a highly collegial environment that is reflective and pushes all team members to keep learning and improving and we are making very little progress.
Teacher pay in WA is excellent.
The fancy private schools here pay teachers less money and do not have cert requirements. A lot of the teachers are just folks with humanities degrees from big name universities. Folks want those jobs not for the pay, but because they are easy af compared to a real classroom.
You right though, people be burning out.
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Atmo there are way more good teachers out there than people think.
Challenging classrooms make amazing teachers look, from the outside, like adequately good teacher. The same room makes an adequately good teacher look, from the outside, like a crap teacher.
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I ride bikes with and/or have employed several public school teachers here in Richmond. All good dudes and genuinely invested in their line of work. All of them are burning out fast. It’s real bad here.
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What you said about some governments intentionally trying to make public schools worse is totally true. Or at least they’re willing to put private/charter schools at a higher level of importance.
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I mean, Betsy Devos was just secretary of education. America is in a dark place as far as education goes.
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Is Betsy devos the sister to the guy that runs the mercenary army?
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yes
I’m sure his position had nothing to do with hers
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This is largely the result of the efforts of the Bill and Melinda foundation and their support of charter schools. Oakland has been suffering for quite some time because of all the students lost to charter schools, among other reasons.
California, and the bay area as a whole is a bit of an exception to the “good schools are where the wealthy are”, there’s plenty of wealth in places like San Francisco and Oakland, but the schools are almost universally crap for other reasons, not least of which is Prop 13.
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