i always wonder how big of a role genetics plays in athletic success. and i guess i am mostly talking about grueling feats of endurance, i.e. cycling, when i say athletic success. obviously there are a lot of factors, including luck when it comes to doing well at any event such as eating/sleeping well, avoiding mechanicals and things outside of your control, etc…
so - the big question - do you think great athletes are born or made? how much are we limited by what we are born with and how much can we make up for it by smart training/diet/race tactics, etc?
to confuse matters, i suppose how strong we are mentally, and how smart we train/race/eat, etc. are in part a function of the brain we are born with - but ignore that and let’s assume how smart we train/race/eat were learned behaviors.
discuss.
-edit-
maybe this should be in off topic. although i’m not sure anyone cares about this discussion as much as myself anyways…
definitely. i know of a few kids who could pick up anything and be good at it quick but they lacked support and an environment that would have allowed them to be even better
The whole nature vs. nurture dualism I find disconcerting in general because I think in nearly all matters it’s both and never purely one or the other… but in cycling, you can nurture your training all you want and that’s where the majority of your speed comes in, but the edge you gain over competitors at the elite level seems to be determined mainly by genetics.
The bike may matter a tiny bit too. Probably around the same time that genetics separate the good from the best. IMO once you hit cat 2 or 3 your equipment choices make a good bit more difference vs. 4 or 5 but this is mostly just my own conjecture and speculation.
I don’t think you can leave out the mental side of the things, most truly successful athletes have a bloody minded sense of purpose and drive to be the best. Often this comes at the expense of being likable people. This is what keeps them going when others drop out. It appears to me that the physical prowess and training are finite at some point, the human body is only so variable at the basic level, same number of muscles etc. for everyone and any training secrets eventually become common knowledge. So it’s that undefinable mental toughness that ends up making the difference. IMO.
Look at Armstrong and Ullrich. Both were said to be incredible natural talents. One took a tour victory at a very young age then never followed through and his talent was ultimately squandered. The other took an incredible natural gift and honed it to the point where he was an unstoppable force when in form.
You can train your ass off and make it to cat 3, maybe even to 2. Beyond that it’s genetics. Either you were meant to be pro or you weren’t
It’s obviously some combination of the two. I’ve got a good friend and coworker who rarely rides, yet is state cyclocross champion, former pro DH rider and national DH champion, competed in DH Worlds, Cat 2 on the road, etc. He’s all genetics, and if he had focused his energy earlier and kept up a consistent training regimen when he was younger, I have little doubt that he could have been a top pro (he’s 30 now, so the outlook isn’t so good). Meanwhile, everyone else I know ride intervals for two hours a day, have coaches and a Powertaps on their $4000 bikes, and they can’t get top ten in the 3s.
Look at Armstrong and Ullrich. Both were said to be incredible natural talents. One took a tour victory at a very young age then never followed through and his talent was ultimately squandered. The other took an incredible natural gift and honed it to the point where he was an unstoppable force when in form.
You can train your ass off and make it to cat 3, maybe even to 2. Beyond that it’s genetics. Either you were meant to be pro or you weren’t[/quote]
Without ACTUALLY knowing what I’m talking about this makes a hell of a lot of sense.
good way of putting it. it is quite obvious that some people are born with or without certain physical qualities that make them more apt to physical success, but one isnt simply born a champion. you still have to work your ass off
I once read that the key to Lance Armstrong’s success was his ability to endure pain. Supposedly, Pantani would be in a state of hypoxia by the time he finished a climb. I’m sure that level of determination is also equal parts nature and nurture, but I believe it’s also medical as much as it’s physical.
It is definitely 50/50. Even science is starting to come around to a dualistic view of this topic. With the rise of of understanding in an area of genetics called epigenetics it’s even being proven and studied.
Lance is a perfect example of this. For sure he has genetics on his side, with his insane VO2 max and ability to remove lactate from his body. On the flip side however, I believe reading he is also a huge numbers guy about his riding, aerodynamics, and training. But he is aging and for him to be able to keep up his ability like that it must have taken a lot of work. Hell I think he was what like 33 or 34 in the 2005 Tour De France? You can’t win on genetics alone at that age.
The whole nature vs. nurture dualism I find disconcerting in general because I think in nearly all matters it’s both and never purely one or the other… but in cycling, you can nurture your training all you want and that’s where the majority of your speed comes in, but the edge you gain over competitors at the elite level seems to be determined mainly by genetics.
The bike may matter a tiny bit too. Probably around the same time that genetics separate the good from the best. IMO once you hit cat 2 or 3 your equipment choices make a good bit more difference vs. 4 or 5 but this is mostly just my own conjecture and speculation.[/quote]
Yeah, I’d say biking is more nurture than many sports. It’s all about training and conditioning, which is why you’ll see a lot of older, ex-athletes in the biking game. Too old to be competitive at what they used to do, so they bike.
But obviously at the upper echelons of any sport you have the ridiculously gifted, who also trained harder than anyone else.
Totally forgot to write about this in my post but I agree 100 percent. I think extreme endurance athletics are basically ascetics and love the hell out of it. It takes a certain type to find pleasure in all that pain and suffering, and being the best at that will take you a long way.
Like they say… “It never gets easier, you just get faster.”
