Seriously we as people NEED to move towards ethically producing everything everywhere anything is produced. YES I am a lefty and I have a long-term dream.
Sorry if I came off as a dick. This topic to just strikes really close to home for me. Wait. it is home for me. I didn’t mean to attack you personally.
Also I was wrong about billet manufacturing, apparently there are lots of billet factories in the middle east and also poorer European countries (ex Soviet) So companies don’t have to make the trek to Asia to use cheap labor.
Also i think it maybe suitable to ask, but what are people really trying to accomplish by buying an ethically made product?
For ME I want ethically made products = equality of people. I want worker run/owned means of production with prices based on TRUE social cost. I don’t like being the recipient of a product that was made by an 8 year old who had little choice in the matter.
BUT I also recognize that most if not all of us are wage slaves to some degree. Too often “first world” people forget that they too are locked into a system, because of the luxuries, "standard of living (though I would argue that our lifestyle is not all that) that we take for granted that comes at price of a less fortunate persons sacrifice.
Further I recognize that I am in a privileged situation to be able to make these observations.
dumb dumb titty
[quote=tzusing]
Also i think it maybe suitable to ask, but what are people really trying to accomplish by buying an ethically made product?[/quote]
Good question. I assume it depends on the person.
ITT: white guilt and misplaced ideals
Since the thread is philosophical, I’d just like to point out that both “affordable” and “ethical” are subjective.
NOT even close
NOT even close[/quote]
The notion of improving the world by choosing how to buy something strikes me as something very close to white guilt.
Global warming? Buy a prius.
Unsustainable farming? Buy organic and local.
The list goes on.
i think that’s less white guilt, exactly, and more ignoring the issues that are really causing the problems and very definitely operating from an unexamined position of privilege.
moreso, i also think encouraging that idea rather than examining root causes is profitable for a lot of people. oh shit, global warming? here, buy this prius, give me some money, feel like you’re doing something so you won’t think about the other things i’m doing that are causing more global warming than your prius is going to offset. profiting from pollution and people who are against pollution, score.
as an easy example.
NOT even close[/quote]
The notion of improving the world by choosing how to buy something strikes me as something very close to white guilt.
Global warming? Buy a prius.
Unsustainable farming? Buy organic and local.
The list goes on.[/quote]
or choosing how not to buy something for me is not white guilt. I am a worker right activist and come at this from a equal rights perspective. We are all in this together so lets treat each other with dignity and respect, and recognize that our choices effect many
Many “green” products, buildings, and automobiles are really just status symbols.
NOT even close[/quote]
The notion of improving the world by choosing how to buy something strikes me as something very close to white guilt.
Global warming? Buy a prius.
Unsustainable farming? Buy organic and local.
The list goes on.[/quote]
or choosing how not to buy something for me is not white guilt. I am a worker right activist and come at this from a equal rights perspective. We are all in this together so lets treat each other with dignity and respect, and recognize that our choices effect many[/quote]
this is a difficult mindset to be caught in. If we as humans were concerned about workers rights and the world we would be weaving our own goddamned pants.
I think at this point, if you still wear denim, leather, mass produced cotton, clothes from department stores, clothes from boutique stores, eat food you buy at a supermarket, have appliances (have a computer), have wood furniture in your house, have tile floors or marble counter tops, have stonewear that isnt made by someone you know, drive a car etc. a bicycle frame that is ethical and affordable should be your last concern.
devil’s advocate:
the guy in X factory in X country making a low (american) wage is living a better life than a starving subsistence farmer, and doubly so for his children, and their children, etc. like how i am a happy upper-middle class child because my family moved from russia back in the day to work in the american factories, which bear (as noted) a striking resemblance to (many) developing countries now.
The bitch of this is we are all fucked
make a difference in the world
buy something
Business Plan: Ethical and Affordable ‘Green’ Bike Co.
Carl and Doug y’all get to work.
Totally agree with franksonline. Buying a 100% US made frame with tubing made by Italians with steel made in the western world isn’t going to stop sweatshop labor.
to answer this question, buy a Taiwanese bike if you want an ethically made bicycle at affordable price.
Is it going to be lovingly welded by one guy sitting in his workshop, probably not. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say the production of the frame was unethical.
I just went and removed the seatpost from my new Fuji, and guess what came out of the frame? Coal dust. And the cry of an orphan. I can’t ride this thing anymore.
I want to sig this but I can’t get rid of Torfinn’s genius.
This made my bellow in laughter