Dmotoguy - the worst thing that can happen really is that you have to rebuild the wheel, but IMO starting off with a Powertap to Hplusson for first build is a little ambitious. Not really that it’d be much harder, just that it’s expensive components and ideally you start on something cheaper.
But yeah, wheelbuilding itself isn’t that hard. Learn to true wheels first before you dive into full-on building. The lacing job mainly takes concentration and patience as was already said, and if you mess up, you de-lace the mistakes and start over. The tensioning/truing/dishing/stress relieving job takes a bit of patience and concentration too and is probably best done in the company of someone who has built a few wheels before.
When finishing the wheel, give it a good stress relieving and stop at the point where further stress relieving 1) doesn’t put the wheel out of true any longer and 2) doesn’t result in noise from the spokes/nipples. Atleast that’s how I was taught to do it… I think some people don’t stress relieve until after the first 100 miles too.
The degree of precision of the Park TM-1 is somewhat dependent on the user, but once you figure out how to be consistent with it, precision is good enough. You get the best precision by releasing the lever at roughly the same rate each time you measure spoke tension. If you release it quickly, the lever builds up inertia, overshoots it mark and gives you a lower tension reading. Too slowly and you get a higher tension reading. I normally take a few readings per spoke until I’m satisfied that I’m getting repeatable results. This problem is not limited to the Park TM-1…any tensiometer that measures spoke deflection with a hand-operated lever, even digital ones, will have the same potential for user error.
[quote=“mihlbach”][quote=“Petr5”]I’d imagine this is as accurate as it gets: [/quote]
I think you meant to say “precision”. Those 2 decimal points don’t have anything to do with accuracy.[/quote]
I think you meant to say you are obnoxious. Those words don’t have anything to do with what we are talking about.
You are confused sir. Accuracy (meaning, how close it is to reading the correct tension) is dependent on the calibration of the instrument, not the # of decimel points on the digital display, which indicates the degree of precision (repeatability) that the instrument is capable of. For instance, if not correctly calibrated, a tensiometer such as the one above could give you the same number over and over when reading the tension of a single spoke, but that doesn’t mean that its telling you the correct tension.
Seeing as how tzusing was actually asking about accuracy, not precision, and Petr5 never said anything about the number of decimal places on that device, you just noticed it went to two decimal places and assumed that was the reason he believed it was “as accurate it gets,” I’d say it is you who are confused, sir. So fuck off.
Petr5 was confusing accuracy and precision. All tensiometers can be accurate, or they can be way off. Saying that a certain tensiometer is “as accurate as it gets” is misleading regardless of the precision of the instrument. Petr5 was probably just being loose with terminology, but the distinction is important for understanding how and why a tensiometer can be useful and why a very precise tensiometer is not necessarily more accurate. Since tzusing was asking about accuracy, and the concepts were being muddled by other posters, I thought I’d point it out for clarity.
If you would rather keep you head in the toilet and remain stupid, go ahead. But please find something worthwhile to bitch about.
Halbritt made a post about tensioning with a tuner.
Tzusing asked a question about accuracy.
Halbritt gave an answer pertaining to precision.
Petr5 made a post about the accuracy of a given tension meter.
The end result: you’re smart, and we’re all stupid because we don’t know the difference between accuracy and precision.
Has it occured to you that we know the fucking difference, and that you’re the stupid one because you can’t follow a fucking conversation? Has it, you pedantic little shit-heel?
[quote=“mihlbach”][quote=“Jabba Degrassi”]
The end result: you’re smart, and we’re all stupid because we don’t know the difference between accuracy and precision.
[/quote]
More or less, that is correct.[/quote]
Are you purposely being obtuse or are you actually this stupid?
I should chime in here. I posted that DT digital because it is the most expensive tensiometer I am aware of. It had nothing to do with the sig figs. I know nothing of it’s likeliness of correct calibration, but at that price point, my expectations for it are the highest.
For what that thing costs, I would expect it to be correctly calibrated! But lesser tensiometers are no doubt calibrated to a degree of accuracy that is acceptable, at least initially. A tensiometer should become increasingly innaccurate as the device is used…the parts wear, the spring fatigues, its gets banged into things and/or dropped on the table, (etc). As long as the tensiometer is getting you in the ball-park for the proper tension, it probably does not matter. Even low-cost tensiometers, such as the TS1, undoubtedly maintain a reasonable degree of accuracy through many years of use, especially for a non-professional bike mechanic who doesn’t use one very often. Of course, one could always have it recalibrated.
In my experience, tensiometers are more useful for getting even tension, and you don’t really need a perfectly accurate tensiometer for that. Using your ear, you can listen for pitch differences to locate unequal tension, but its hard to determine the magnitude of the tension difference that way. I often use pitch to determine if a wheel needs retensioning, but rely on a tensiometer for getting the job done. For really well-built wheels, spokes tensions should vary less than 10% and unless you have amazing ears, your going to need a tensiometer to be sure that you are within 10%. In my experience the TS-1 (if used correctly) is sufficiently precise to get you within 10% tolerance. I’m sure the DT tensiometer is more precise, but its overkill for the non-professional bike mechanic.
[quote=“Jabba Degrassi”]Let’s do a little time-line exercise:
Halbritt made a post about tensioning with a tuner.
Tzusing asked a question about accuracy.
Halbritt gave an answer pertaining to precision.
Petr5 made a post about the accuracy of a given tension meter.
The end result: you’re smart, and we’re all stupid because we don’t know the difference between accuracy and precision.
Has it occured to you that we know the fucking difference, and that you’re the stupid one because you can’t follow a fucking conversation? Has it, you pedantic little shit-heel?[/quote]
I intentionally responded to Tzusing using the term “precision” as I inferred that’s what he meant. The differentiation between the two is important. I’m sure several people got it and some didn’t. That’s ok, we are all more or less knowledgeable than others in different ways. Some of you are pedantic asshats, I certainly am. Now, let’s proceed with the thread:
Agreed about the Park TM-1 having sufficient accuracy when used in a repeatable fashion. The precision is also adequate for my needs. If I can discern the tension difference between 1/4 to 1/8th of a turn of the spoke wrench, then that’s sufficient for me.
