All current Shimano 11 road/gravel and the most recent 10s Tiagra and RX400 are all on the same pull.
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You’re not wrong. Just speculation on my part, but I think that gap is not going to happen when this new parts ecosystem drops. There may be the usual shortage of aftermarket stuff at first, but IF I am understanding it correctly Claris/Sora/RX400/Tiagra and the corresponding levels of hybrid parts are all getting merged into this new family of parts. Might be the first time that Shimano has intentionally created LESS skus ever. It almost seems too good to be true since it’s so opposite of what they have done in the past.
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But of course it will be a whole new standard, right?
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Why wouldn’t it be?
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Every time I scroll through Shimano mtn derailleurs at Universal I lol because they have so damn many different mtn pushers.
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Braden’s post + Adem fills in for FDs over here: Did you just ShartQ? - #19210 by adem
I’ve been thinking about compatibility earlier than 11s/New 10s but it seems that “just google” is less complex than trying to corral the mass of all the stuff that works into a coherent grouping.
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this is good stuff, and if Sensah and Microshift are on the same pull, then all the better. If not, maybe it’s time for us to start a mega-spreadsheet?
It seems both Sensah and Microshift have Shimano compatibility for everything from 7-11 including new/old 10s. The naming is sort of muddled and the lower speed derailleurs appear to be the same with different badge/name but from what I can tell it’s all there. Sensah has 12s but only for SRAM.
Sensah front shifters also pull a huge amount of cable, I haven’t been able to find a listing of FD cable pull but a quick measurement shows it’s more than 4700 - which itself works fine with toggle link. So should be broadly compatible?
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I was just looking at this myself and it’s much clearer to me now that some sort of Sensah/Microshift drivetrain will be what I’m buying next (especially for the above dreamt Surly abomination)
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fwiw Microshift thumbies are near perfect and cheaper than anything else on the market
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this is going to be an interesting era - I wonder how these new brands are going to fare with high mileage, high intensity riding?
I’ve been buying ultegra groupsets for over twenty years because they’re kinda no-brainer for road. Put on, use for as long as you have the bike, upgrade to the twice-newest group after five years. 1% chance that your crankarms peel open like bananas, but you buy the ticket you take the ride, I guess.
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Not well?
What I’ve seen so far of Microshift is not great on this front. Cheap parts are cheap.
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yeah, I was trying to be curious not cynical there. My hope is that there’s impetus to learn from their cheap groups and work towards refinement and higher price points.
Kinda like what all the Japanese drivetrain companies did in the 1960s and 1970s.
Then, in like 2060, Sensah can fuck up their highly respected product line by switching to only selling shifters that work through your Nerualink*
*which you have to log into Twitter to use, of course.
I’m shocked. Flabbergasted and astonished.
I hope that an ultegra/force level competitor emerges soon.
Maybe I’ll go for 10s Tiagra again when I swap up the pink bike, but I kinda like that all my bikes are NJS or SRAM 11s atm. I doubt I would want to go back.
Impossible to get an honest answer from enough people to really know. It is a huge status hit to admit to using low-end parts and finding them acceptable long-term. It makes you look like an eternal piker who can’t even tell good from bad. Anyone working in a shop only sees the stuff that doesn’t work or fails.
I think if average rider is buying a new group every 5 years, they’ll work fine.
Sensah high end Empire is marketed internally as between 105-Ultegra in terms of quality/function. They place their other series as between Tiagra-105. I do not think I have the ability to judge this objectively myself.
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This is where analysis of aggregate reporting would be really handy - one person probably can’t pull signal from noise comparing Empire to Ultegra, but ten thousand people’s experience probably can.
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FWIW, the feel out of the box on Sensah is > Microshift.
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It’s sad The Industry was able to outlast Berto and his testing. Imagine this sort of thing for modern groupsets. He has some with time-to-shift charts as well which would be truly incredible. We could be arguing about tenths of a second performance! How this derailleur shifter combo is way better for upshifting but if you prefer strong downshifting go with this combo because it’s -0.23 sec faster/shift.
Instead it’s all weight and “feel” nonsense
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I’d love to see more compatability and quality combo charts! I’m not super worried about fractions of a second, but I do care if it’s a crisp shift, so maybe feel is time+lever pressure