[quote=barba] I doubt aluminum is going to have a revival like lugged steel.
[/quote]
I would have thought this before the huge thread about the Cannondale track, and general Cannondale love around here. And the Yeti looptales. And Pista concepts. And Kleins.
A lot of the beercan aluminum bikes get retro love that I don’t think will disappear.
[quote=NitroPye]I honestly don’t care where they are made. This is an international economy, if someone overseas offers more value for your money fuck the entitled american worker going “BUT WE WANT TO MAKE IT IN THE USA!!!”
Buck up and give people a reason to produce things over here.[/quote]
The issue is sustainability (shipping materials and products back and forth across the Pacific is stupid) and human rights concerns.
At least, it is for me.
Cannondale is moving to Taiwan, and Taiwan has a very good record with human rights. Also, being a bike builder over there is skilled labor (just like it is here), and quality welders get paid well and live comfortable middle-class lives, by my understanding. There’s no argument that’s it’s not wasteful, though.
It turns out that healthcare costs ($5000 per yer, per employee, and growing annually) are basically the sole reason why Cannondale is shutting down US manufacturing. This doesn’t make it any less lame, but it just means that, if this really upsets you, you should write your congressmen and congresswomen. The word at the shop today was that they may still keep some US manufacturing, making the Capo and the CAAD in the US. I guess these are the only two all-aluminum road frames they’re still producing, and maybe it’ll be cheap enough to keep a handful of welders on staff that they can still justify it.
ive always hated cannondales, so whatever.
dicks… eat them or gtfo.
i’ve actually been wanting an aluminum cannondale recently - and for me the made in usa thing is a dealbreaker. otherwise there is nothing to differentiate a taiwan cannondale from all of the other frames i can choose from, you know, besides ride quality and all that stuff… but nothing major enough to make me a proud cannondale owner.
There are no human rights concerns to worry about with Taiwan.
Also, as BC said it was an issue with health care. Looks like america fucked itself on this one.
and that means my next bike will be completely custom. I’m done buying parts from overseas if I don’t have to!
Good luck not using parts made overseas. Hell, that is where most of the good ones come from.
Most, but not all:
I was looking down at my bike the other day as I was riding, and I realized the my frame, cranks, seatpost and stem, and wheels were all American-made. All the remaining components, other than my Fizik saddle, are from American companies made, but made overseas. Oh, and the tires are German.
[quote=bonechilling]Cannondale is moving to Taiwan, and Taiwan has a very good record with human rights. Also, being a bike builder over there is skilled labor (just like it is here), and quality welders get paid well and live comfortable middle-class lives, by my understanding. There’s no argument that’s it’s not wasteful, though.
It turns out that healthcare costs ($5000 per yer, per employee, and growing annually) are basically the sole reason why Cannondale is shutting down US manufacturing. This doesn’t make it any less lame, but it just means that, if this really upsets you, you should write your congressmen and congresswomen. The word at the shop today was that they may still keep some US manufacturing, making the Capo and the CAAD in the US. I guess these are the only two all-aluminum road frames they’re still producing, and maybe it’ll be cheap enough to keep a handful of welders on staff that they can still justify it.[/quote]
Same reason GM is failing so hard, in part. They’re finally turning out some decent cars, but the unions are absolutely killing them.
Nearly all prominent economists disagree with this.
I think the fact that rich people EVERYWHERE drives German cars points to the fact that American car companies could have stayed competitive, but they dropped the ball. They started churning out shit like suburbans and h2’s that don’t appeal to anyone.
Nearly all prominent economists disagree with this.[/quote]
how so? You think vastly overpayed/overbenefited factory workers don’t cut out the profits GM could be seeing?
There is obviously still the stigma of “unreliable domestics” from the shitty cars of the 80’s/90’s that they produced. And the fact that now nobody is buying cars, but they were in trouble before the economy bubble popped.
I’m far from an expert, just curious.
This is just indicative of large corporations failing to evolve to suit the marketplace. SUVs were easy money for car companies. There is a great deal of profit margin to be had by marking up a truck chassis $20k and calling it an “Escalade”. The even though the H2 sold for tens of thousands less than the H1, it could be produced with much greater margins per unit given that the H1 was a purpose-specific military vehicle and the H2 again was a glorified truck chassis.
If the cost of labor in the US were killing profit margins, Mercedes wouldn’t have built a plant in Alabama recently, nor would Honda be assembling cars in the US. GM is simply poorly managed.
Toyota also has a plant here as well IIRC and Subaru assembles their cars in Indiana.
I agree, GM is just poorly managed and over stretched (too many products)
As far as I know, Michigan has much stronger unions than any of the southern states. Hence, foreign car companies are producing here in the states, but not in Michigan, like the big 3. The problem with the American car companies is a huge shitstorm fueled by short-sighted management, high labor and health care costs, and the economic climate.
It’ll be sad to see Cannondale go across the Pacific. I believe that great bikes can be made in Taiwan, but being made in the USA was a point of pride, and now I’ll have to go custom to get that. Will they ride the same? Probably. But I can’t look at my bike and be all “America, fuck yeah!” and gloss over all the Japanese components.
[quote=everythingwolf][quote=halbritt]
Most, but not all:
http://www.lhthomson.com/[/quote]
overrated[/quote]
Overbuilt and overpriced as a result, really. I don’t think overrated (do they fail?). Functionally equivalent and cheaper parts could be produced from forgings rather than being billet machined. Quite frankly, I’m surprised Thomson parts are as inexpensive as they are.
The auto industry metaphor doesn’t really work here. Cannondale by comparison is a rather small manufacturing facility. I don’t really care where people manufacture bikes, but this is likely a short-sighted decision on the part of corporate management.
for what it is, they just seem like over kill. some of the X4’s have issues because some bars dont work well and they end up failing or breaking (yes partly the bar’s fault) and all the bolts Ive dealt with on X2’s dont really last IMO, and stuff that looks and functions the same can be bought for cheaper. My rockwerks 0degree 2 bolt black 27.2 seatpost is almost identical and if I put a thomson logo on there no one would know the difference, and origin8 is producing a stem that also looks identical to the X2.
just my opinion of course