yep, you got it
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Yeah, I am more likely to go by what someone has told me has worked for them, rather than trying to decipher charts. I was just looking for the cheapest dangler if I am going to mess with inappropriate brand marriages. GRX 400 is 119$ here vs 199$ for the GRX 800.
This has always smelled like BS to me. I’ve definitely mixed and matched various 11s cassettes with my Sram 11s road stuff without issue.
What’s weird is that someone else posted a different site that claimed that 11 road was a different 3.7X number.
One thought is that is actually the gap only between the first two cogs to force the low position be set by the limit screw.
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Wasn’t it some early campy that the pitch varied?
I wonder if that article measured every cog or just the small ones as you hypothesize.
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early 11-speed Campy definitely had varying pitch, and it wasn’t clear that it was done on purpose
it was measured to have much more internal variation than the differences between it and Shimano/SRAM
Campy 10 too
Shimano just published the EVs for the “LinkGlide” RD-M8130 and RD-M5130, which as a refresher, Shimano claims are not compatible with existing 10/11-speed MTB parts. If you pixel peep and compare the x130 versions with their RD-M8100 and RD-M5100 counterparts, it looks like the housing stop and cable anchor are in precisely the same position.
If Shimano’s not lying/being overly prescriptive in their compatibility guide and the cog pitch is actually different on the LinkGlide cassettes, I’ll bet it’s just a different cable pull on the shifter, and the motion ratio is unchanged at the derailleur.
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Ratio now have a solution for 1x12 speed (road) in existing 10 and 11 speed bodies that doesn’t require fucking with the cable fin on an Mtb derailer.
It occurred to me just now that all X-Horzion is the same so you could use this with a 2x11 GX dangler and block out a gear and get a Sram gravel group without a J-tek. But no solution for crappy cable routing on “Modern” gravel bikes for mtb danglers.
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Doesn’t x-horizon effectively equal X-actuation?
This is Exact-actuation.
So, roadie sram style 1x with the friendly cable routing, and 2x non-clutched (Also with friendly routing) such as the 11 speed wifli. Also old styled XO 2x 10 speed clutched or non-clutched. And yeah, 2x 10 speed GX clutched.
Except, this solution is not supposed to be compatible in 2x with the AXS 12 speed cassette cos the cassette has flat chain magic unicorn dust and magic jockey wheels etc.
I guess what they have done here is just redesigned their shifter pawl so they don’t need the modified fin and mtb mech. A much more simple and elegant solution, and maybe a bit lighter?
Sram road 10, road 11 and mtb 10 are BASICALLY the same.
Sram mtb 11 and mtb 12 (x-horizon) are the same.
I am revising my claims here very slightly
I had a collection of cassettes on my bench this weekend, and got inspired to take a micrometer to the loose cogs and spacers (previous conclusions were largely drawn with calipers and cassettes installed on bikes). Results:
- SRAM 11-spd MTB - 11-42 PG-1130: 3.84mm cog pitch
- SRAM 11-spd Road(?) - 11-36 PG-1170: 3.83mm cog pitch
- Shimano 11-spd MTB - 11-42 CS-M7000: 3.82mm cog pitch
- Shimano 11-spd Road - 11-28 CS-R7000: 3.77mm cog pitch
So, Shimano’s 11-speed cog pitch is actually noticeably different between road and MTB! It came down to the spacers - the cogs are the same width, but the 105 cassette’s spacers were consistently slimmer than the SLX cassette’s spacers.
That said, 0.05mm difference in cog pitch is 4x smaller than the difference that Art’s sheet claimed. We’re talking half a millimeter difference in cassette width rather than 2mm difference, which does not really present a problem for indexing.
I found it odd that Art’s claimed that SRAM Road had narrower cog pitch that I didn’t see on my sample. I wish I’d had a more “road”-sized SRAM cassette to check - the 11-36 is a big cassette; does SRAM consider it to be a MTB cassette? That said, the 11-36 PG-1170 does require the wider 11-speed HG freehub body, just like you’d expect from a road cassette…
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an other tiny thing
x-horizon is trademarked name for the motion of the RD geometry
x-actuation is the sram mtb groups cable pull
exact actuation is the road and mtb 10 cable pull
for example there exists an x-horizon, exact actuation rd
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Ah yes. Good point.
heading down to the sram office rn to kick someones ass for these naming conventions
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Yep. That’s what came on my Open. The 1x “road” dangler. They really have messed it up as far as naming shit goes, as you can also get variants with the same name. So “Force” in 1x or 2x with or without x-horizon, but thankfully only in exact-actuation.
Can anyone tell meet if there is actually a 2x x-horizon x-actuation 11 speed dangler? (MTB) .
I can pull one up on Google but I think it mis-labelled, or mis-pictured.
Edit: this, I think it is being confused with another GX derailer:
Probably this:
you’re not going to see 2x X-HORIZON™ anywhere, it’s the 1x stuff
the closest you’ll come is a 2x x-actuation mtb rd w/ clutch
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Yeah, that’s what I thought. See above.
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It’s actually this, 10 speed, 2x, clutch, EXACT-actuation. 10 speed dangler has the same ratio as 11 road, as mentioned above. By all of us I think. Anyone who is not confused right now is not concentrating, man, I could build a meme based on this shit.
That is what I WOULD be using on my 11 speed sram road shitters if the cable entry position was compatible with my roadie cable exit position.
I guess a 10 speed derailer used in 2x mode is the closest thing SRAM have to a gravel 2x dangler.