Dangler wrangling

In answer to the question of whether or not sram and Shimano 12 speed wide range are cross compatible, prompted by Ratio Tech saying they were different, when used with their products. Responses from 3 different guys who are pretty onto it. From the antipodes. YMMV.

  1. They work fine together. The best performing sram drivetrains run the Shimano cassette and chain, the way they shift is awesome.

  2. The hot set up at the moment is SRAM wireless shifter and mech paired with a shimano cluster, chain and ring.

  3. My favourite combo is XO cassette, chain, and shifter, with a shimano mech

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i would LOVE to swap my sram shifter for a shimano shifter on my mtb. but also i’ve only been on that bike twice in as many years so :person_shrugging:

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I did some dangler (well shifter) wrangling to better understand pull ratios. I hooked up a Zee 10 speed shifter to some cheapo calipers.

image

Highlights:

  • Shifter pull varies over the shift range, 3.1 - 3.8mm
  • This means rear pull ratio also varies
  • First and last shifts pull ~1mm extra since the limit stops do the work
  • If you measure the total pull including the end shifts and divide to get the average, you will get the wrong number.
  • Based on this data, Dynasys pull is average 3.5mm, pull ratio is 1.1
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Wow. Very cool.

I guess that makes some sense, as the dangler cage plates travel in an arc. They’d need more cable pull to result in the same horizontal cog-to-cog movement. Probably some stuff going on with how the cable is anchored too?

This is some primo dangler wrangling

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OK this makes sense to me on the last shift but not the first. Does it mean you need 1mm of slack in the cable to get the shift right? I always set the limit then pull the cable taught and then adjust tension, it sounds like this would result in a sloppy shift

You’re adjusting tension to shift the interior cogs. Plus you probably can’t really pull the cable tight.

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Another thing is that since the pull is nonlinear, the “average” pull increases as you add more gears. If you calculate the pull for an additional click you get an average of 3.6mm pull for 11 speed, but the shifts would be identical.

Note that “average” is the linear fit: total pull distance from cog 2 to cog n-1 divided by n-3.

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ARgh, lost a row which pulls the average numbers down slightly: 3.44 mm average pull instead of 3.5.

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SQ is Shimano 8/9/10 evenly spaced cable-pull-wise? I feel like my understanding of how indexing works needs to be adjust a little

Probably not. But for the shifter I measured each click is only about 3% bigger than the previous so it’s not going to be obvious that it’s not the same.

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Updated with the XT 8000. Though it pulls about the same average cable, it’s much less progressive. It has metal internals, so I wonder if some of the extra progressiveness in the Zee is actually flex of the plastic carrier winding up or deflecting.

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I was looking at 3d printed sram shifter spools, cos they do break, and I see this dude also does one that’s let’s his sram shifter shift Shimano danglers.

So all this fuckery with my sram danglers, I could have, possibley used a GRX 2x rather than a non clutched sram wifli with a THL.

https://www.printables.com/model/469736-sram-shifter-to-shimano-derailleur-adapter

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Someone else building replacement shifter pawls for sram

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Is there any cross compatibility between SRAM and Shimano MTB clutched danglers, like, SRAM 11 speed shifter with Shimano SLX, or whatever?

Unfortunately, nope. Not without something like one of those problem solvers or wolf tooth pulley adapter things.

Dynasys and X-actuation ended up on essentially the same pull ratio

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Sram 11 speed road shifters work with sram 10 speed 2x10 danglers, clutched. Not shimano I know, but useful if your frame’s cable exit position works with srams mtb cable-in position. They are rated to shift to a 36 but I have no probs with them going into a 40 in 2x mode. Thats the XO type 2. Light too by modern 1x dangler weight standards. Exact-actuation is what you need for roads shifters eh.

I made some infographics the other day, as a challenge, on my phone. Here are a couple.
Possibley relevant if you have a parts bin full of old sram stuff. They should all work together.

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