i can kinda agree with you, as i rock/run 75’s and other japanese stuff on my spicy eyetalian due to price concerns, but i just like to think my whip is the bike version of Blonde Redhead.
This is why Miche rocks so hard.
This is why Miche rocks so hard.[/quote]
Deda ditto.
the italians influenced the awesome japanese builders. it’s obvious looking at a nagasawa.
i don’t care where it is made if it rides like i want it to.
i’d take dutch, english, italian, japanese, american, mexican, spanish, australian, canadian…who cares if it’s nice.
One reason for this is that Japanese frames are generally smaller than their European counterparts. Since seatpost setback stays the same, smaller sized frames must have a steeper seat tube angle in order to achieve the same saddle-to-bb angle.
Also keirin events are generally shorter than the races which were popular in Europe so it’s safe to say they’d benefit from a more tucked position for aerodynamics as well as for the increased leverage.[/quote]
yeah shorter people usually have shorter femur which means you need less setback to have your hips far enough forward and you do that by making the seat tube steeper.
the 80* shit though comes from some kierin dude that needed a really steep angle for some reason and he was fast so other builders copied that for a bit…then found out it didn’t work so well for others…then went back to the more normal stuff.
[quote=“jacques”][quote=“dooktruck”]One reason for this is that Japanese frames are generally smaller than their European counterparts. Since seatpost setback stays the same, smaller sized frames must have a steeper seat tube angle in order to achieve the same saddle-to-bb angle.
Also keirin events are generally shorter than the races which were popular in Europe so it’s safe to say they’d benefit from a more tucked position for aerodynamics as well as for the increased leverage.[/quote][/quote]
Word up. But steepening isn’t wholly to do with a more aero position because steepening the ST still means the saddle should be, give or take a little, in the same virtual plane as it would be on a slightly slacker seat tube. A steeper seat tube with the saddle in the same virtual plane as a slacker seat tube means the overall reach / front end is being pushed out further away from you, so a shorter TT is necessary to compensate. Steepening the seat tube basically means you can shorten the chainstays a bit more and stiffen the whole bike by inherent means of geometry, but it also means more vibration to the rider… I think the reason some builders were doing 80 degree seat tubes was some keirin racer had anatomy issues that necessitated that, some other guys tried it because that racer was winning and after awhile everyone realized it’s kind of silly. 80 is too steep 99 percent of the time…
Oh and just saw (|) said nearly the same thing.
Italian obviously.
[size=85][color=#00FF00]JK, the chap with the brightly colored handlebars is one of my boys and is a strong ass rider, I just really like this pic and this thread was an obvious excuse to post it.[/color][/size]
guy on the concept has the best position out of the whole bunch though! concept ftw!
also, sidi ftw
The guy on my wheel is a really, really fast sprinter. He’s got a couple of teammates out there too. EJ’s just got his 'stache and a dream.
gluvs match weel
<3
doooope
[quote="(|)"]the italians influenced the awesome japanese builders. it’s obvious looking at a nagasawa.
i don’t care where it is made if it rides like i want it to.
i’d take dutch, english, italian, japanese, american, mexican, spanish, australian, canadian…who cares if it’s nice.[/quote]
I <3 my dutch bike.
[quote=“trackatino”]Word up. But steepening isn’t wholly to do with a more aero position because steepening the ST still means the saddle should be, give or take a little, in the same virtual plane as it would be on a slightly slacker seat tube. A steeper seat tube with the saddle in the same virtual plane as a slacker seat tube means the overall reach / front end is being pushed out further away from you, so a shorter TT is necessary to compensate. Steepening the seat tube basically means you can shorten the chainstays a bit more and stiffen the whole bike by inherent means of geometry, but it also means more vibration to the rider… I think the reason some builders were doing 80 degree seat tubes was some keirin racer had anatomy issues that necessitated that, some other guys tried it because that racer was winning and after awhile everyone realized it’s kind of silly. 80 is too steep 99 percent of the time…
Oh and just saw (|) said nearly the same thing.[/quote]
I agree with you both. But in addition to what you’re saying, by making the seat post steeper and moving the bars forward and down a bit you effectively rotate the rider forward on the bike without changing his position (maybe posture is a more accurate word). This also moves his weight forward, and if he wants to stay stationary, he’ll have to carry a lot of his weight on his arms. However, when sprinting the force you transmit to the pedals to make them spin forward also makes you want to flip backwards. This is why you pull on your bars when pedaling hard: to stop you from falling back.
Weird, I never thought of it like that. I feel like I pull on the bars in a seated sprint because it helps give leverage for my legs to push against since the force of my arms causes my body to compress and tighten up the core which in turn gives the quads and glutes a platform to go against…
Of course, you can also do a seated sprint without pulling against the bars at all.
I have to say that picture is fucking badass.
Have you windtunneled the downforce of your mustache?
Have neither, would happily take either…but, for me, nothing Japanese makes me drool the way a vintage Cinelli does:
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i have no information to back this up, but…
AUSTRALIA FTW!
I don’t vote 'cos I ride and love both Italian & Japanese bikes.
Hell, I’d really love to have a Kiyo Miyazawa but finding & buying a nice one from Japan would cost way beyond my budget so instead - being here in Europe - I got me a nice vintage Rossin Pista. And hey Kiyo-san did his apprenticeship at Rossin so… 
BTW British track bikes are nice too.
EDIT. Eurojosh FTW!
So did Marinoni-san.
I want a Marinoni so bad…