It was a great listen, but he sort of talked me out of SMP unless I’m able to actually get fitted on one.
The padding/gasket analogy made a lot of sense. Unfortunately in covid times that means a lot of buying and trying. I’m about to give up on my scoop shallow. Feels narrow despite buying it based on my sits bones measurements.
I kind of agree with most of what he said. I think you start wide and go narrow if it doesn’t work. I did a 140 km gravel fondo yesterday and afterwards to pee was excruciating. I’ve never experienced that before. I bought an SMP years ago after reading Steve Hogg’s stuff but it was a “comfort” saddle. Too much gasket, so its now on my daughter’s bike !
I just listened to it while working out and it’s basically an ad for SMP?
I tried an SMP years ago and it was horrible. SMP is a radical departure from other saddles, and whenever someone promotes something that different from conventional saddles I get a little suspicious. Basically what he is saying is that the saddle shapes that have evolved for close to a century are all wrong for most cyclists.
I finally found my magic saddle but I won’t beat that dead horse any more. thrash that cabbage any more (sorry didn’t want to promote animal cruelty)
Yes, he didn’t like your choice, but he hadn’t tried it ; )
oh man I hate smp saddles. I just started the saddle podcast though
I didn’t get it out of it that he’s hellbent on anyone having an SMP. But it does have a few characteristics that I feel are good to look for in a saddle:
Yeah nothing beats going to a fitter for swapping the saddles. But if you do find a saddle with the above characteristics, it will take getting it in the right spot. Luckily this is something you can mostly do on your own with the trainer.
I’m not sure about this. Check out some of the SQLabs saddles, which he mentioned:
I have one, btw if anyone has a really wide ass and wants to try one.
He kinda hates on Fizik, justifiably, but I’m 8 or 9/10 on my Antares without a cutout.
I was speaking for myself. My sit bones point inwards rather than downwards, which I think is the reason for choosing a log rather than a plank.
I think it’s pretty clear that if a saddle works for you, then that’s fine and there’s no general rules about. He was saying that he’s had a lot of people who thought they were happy with their saddle until they tried a different one.
But it really seems like Ferg is missing the point, SMP is not an outlier and plenty of modern saddles are similar to the SMP in a lot of ways. The downward bend of the nose has virtually the same effect as a short saddle. So Specialized Power, Bontrager Aeolus, PRO Stealth (Note all three of these manufacturers happen to have fitting programs as well… so tons of firsthand data), Selle San Marco Shortfit, Fizik Argo etc. etc. At the time of the episode Fizik hadn’t released an actual short wide saddle, but they’ve caught up too. So if we’re talking about some sort of broader evolution or whatever, this is it.
Oh I disagree. Have you ridden an SMP? It is very different from any other saddle. The nose is basically two padded (and sharp) rails.
When it comes down to it, what works for you is what works. I just disagree with him selling SMP as an all-purpose solution for the majority of riders.
I also think the whole discussion about how padding is not necessary is a little dumb. You can definitely see a trend among saddle manufacturers toward providing more padding and that’s because it is more comfortable for many riders.
In my experience… Padding correlates to pelvic rotation. The more tilted back the more padding (or significant hammock effect) is likely to be appreciated. That’s a growing demographic with aging riders, endurance bikes and gravel bikes.
Flat(ish)/firm still rules the roost for long/low. Despite their appearance I’d still put the Pro Stealth, Argo and Prologo AGX in the same boat as a Fabric Scoop in that regard.
Argo?
You’d be pretty lonely in the position that more padding = better. Conversely, I’m in the other camp, where stiffer saddles with less paddles have always been more comfortable for me.
I think his point was that in his fitting studio, he can get an SMP saddle to fit most folks which requires a lot of testing. Given the range, that seems feasible, but isn’t going to work for most folks who don’t have access to the entire range, so we try a few things until we settle on 8/10.
It me. Last season, I finally had to give up on my Flite after many years of use. The assometer showed a lot of pressure points.
Now I’m on Ergon and all the issues I had are gone.
penis owners, don’t you feel like you’re sitting directly on spongy tissue with pelvis rotated forward/flat back though? if I rotate my pelvis forward more than ~30deg it feels like my perineum tissue is lower than my sit bones
I can definitely find a very specific point where this happens. I can tilt a saddle I like (Fabric Scoop Flat) up a degree from “perfect” and have it go to “real bad” when in the drops.
The common thread for all the firm/short saddles is a specific cutout area to roll into when getting low. The Prologo AGX definitely allows me to rotate a bit further. I’ve found that most of these saddles work when the front half of the saddle is set close to level with the ground and the tail ends up slightly higher rather than flat from end to end creating a low point in the middle.
For a saddle with zero cutout, the Scoop is a really well received saddle here and the most minimally padded is also the most flat and most preferred. The shallow a distant second and very few people like the most padded “radius” version.
I think Patch is a bit of an outlier with a convex lateral profile preference in this regard.
makes sense— the cutout definitely helps to enable more anterior pelvic tilt and open up the stomach/diaphragm for better breathing, and then the next adjustment point is tilting the saddle forward until you’re sliding, then back it off a bit.
naturally for pelvic comfort I find myself rotating back and flexing my back which impacts breathing, maybe I’ll try a neutral saddle tilt to see if I can get my chest open more
Current saddle is the Antares carbon whatever without the cutout. I can rotate pretty far forward without putting pressure on my perineum. I can feel definitive pressure on my ischium where it rolls forward onto the wings of the saddle. With the Arione the wings would sag, or I’d roll off 'em and end up on my tender bits if I rolled forward too far.
I do move around a little on the saddle, and occasionally I do need to scooch back on the Antares if I’m in the drops. I don’t have any issues with pain or numbness on long rides.
Apologies if I’m not the first to ask, I’m too lazy to read a whole thread. But my ass loves a Flite, is there a synthetic or otherwise rainproof, saddle that fellow Flite sitters like?
I thought the podcast was older than it was, but his references are just dated. He thought they only really had done this:
Hmm yeah, I think a horizontally concave (hammocky) saddle will set more upper and lower limits as far as back angle. I find that I have to sacrifice a nice sitting back up hands off the bars if I want to get as low as possible in the bars. But what you’re describing about a level front and a raised back is literally what he says in the podcast. And only happens with a horizontally concave saddle?
And plenty of very popular saddles are laterally convex not just the somewhat extreme SMP. Flite, Arione, Power Arc Pro / Mirror, these are all more convex than the Power, Prologo AGX, PRO Stealth.
My theory is that layer sitbone angle determines this, and that skinny built folks tend have pronating sitbones, rather than lumberjack or more squarish built folks. An extreme example of a squarish built cyclist might be Kruijswijk.
did somebody have an sq labs 612 saddle to lend? I would like to try one.
Yes. It’s a big un’, though. 612 Ergowave, 15cm
