[quote="(|)"][quote=“deathhare”]
Parker Lewis lives in Osaka and said that he recently quit dealing with gaijin because people were buying his frames and marking them up and selling them abroad.[/quote]
maybe he quit selling to yellowjersey then. that serrotta thread is pretty recent.[/quote]
or nagasawa didn’t wanna sell frames to parker lewis
I’ve emailed with Parker, who is a totally nice guy, and if his name is any indication, definitely gaijin himself.
[quote=“dooktruck”][quote="(|)"][quote=“deathhare”]
Parker Lewis lives in Osaka and said that he recently quit dealing with gaijin because people were buying his frames and marking them up and selling them abroad.[/quote]
maybe he quit selling to yellowjersey then. that serrotta thread is pretty recent.[/quote]
or nagasawa didn’t wanna sell frames to parker lewis[/quote]
If I was a framebuilder with that kind of reputation and respect and someone was trying to buy my product to turn for a huge profit, I too would say tough shit. But if someone called me up and was polite and seemed like they wanted a bike built for them based on respect for my skills and work I would still build the bike. I think often times people overlook the differences in culture between american business and japanese business. Japanese craftsmen seem to take a lot of pride in their work and in satisfying a customer, it’s very much about relationships, not just cash exchanging hands. A friend of mine has a dad who travels over there a lot and I was talking with him about it over winter break and he said he had gone to a guy who makes wood working hand tools and the guy had been more than happy to just talk to him for a really long time, and had explained a lot about japanese business from a cultural standpoint and while they were talking an american had come to see if the guy would produce tools for sale in america and the guy had turned him away claiming he didnt work for americans, but had been more than willing to make a set of tools for my friends’ dad. I think it is a really interesting culture and way of doing business, and a lot of really gorgeous stuff comes out of it.
any idea how he ended up in Japan?
based on the name I had always assumed he was foreign and living in Japan.
I bought a frame from Gabe @ OP’s website. I couldn’t be happier with the service. The frame got to me exactly as described and it was not some wrecked frame like the stuff you find on fleabay. Gabe’s email communication was nearly instant. He must be on an iPhone or Blackberry. The frame got to me in like 4 days from Japan. I was really impressed. I recommended Gabe to one of my friends and he got a frame from him and I know another guy in town that got an UNO from him. Great guy to do business with. And for all of the people who say his stuff is overpriced, it’s not, you get what you pay for.
I got a white Panasonic, btw. I will post pics later.
[quote=“ted”]I bought a frame from Gabe @ OP’s website. I couldn’t be happier with the service. The frame got to me exactly as described and it was not some wrecked frame like the stuff you find on fleabay. Gabe’s email communication was nearly instant. He must be on an iPhone or Blackberry. The frame got to me in like 4 days from Japan. I was really impressed. I recommended Gabe to one of my friends and he got a frame from him and I know another guy in town that got an UNO from him. Great guy to do business with. And for all of the people who say his stuff is overpriced, it’s not, you get what you pay for.
I got a white Panasonic, btw. I will post pics later.[/quote]
people say its overpriced because usually the reason NJS frames are for sale is because they have been wrecked or replaced by a rider for whatever reason, even if they dont appear to be. Also you used to be able to get them for like 500 dollars on ebay pretty easily. They are pretty overpriced considering you can get the frames for the equivalent of like 3-400 dollars regularly on yahoo auction japan or in japanese bike shops but no one ships overseas. 500 dollars for shipping and handling is a pretty serious markup, and I’m pretty sure he charges you for shipping, so a 500 dollars finders fee is pretty steep. Not saying he’s a bad dude or anything, but the argument that they are overpriced is a solid one. Hell, you can get really nice NJS bikes off of sffixed’s for sale thread built up for a grand or less pretty regularly.
I too have purchased from Gabe and from ParkerLewis (Rene). The two are great to do business with. They are very knowledgeable and are more than willing to listen and answer any questions you have. I have bought a frame from Gabe and it was shipped and received in less than 4 days form Japan. I am currently working with Rene on another frame and he has been able to answer all my questions and responds rather quickly (1-2 days) considering the amount of email these guys get. If you have the money and they have what you want, I say go for it. As far as the two are concerned Rene’s prices are better but Gabe has more selection.
tdhk
*pics to come (frame still getting painted, should be done in about 4 weeks)
[quote]Well Nagasawa doesnt sell to non-Japanese people anymore so you wouldnt get anything if you went there.
Fuck Yellow Jersey.[/quote]
He doesn’t just still build for foreigners, he hooks em the fuck up.
http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43368
“I found out that not only is he still building road bikes, but that he offers a special service to foreigners who have a limited time only in Japan. Provided we could make the journey to his shop, he would measure me up for the frame and have it made before I left the country to avoid shipping to the States.”
And this guy got him to build a road frame.
Check out the rest of this guy’s threads. Naga took him to dinner and put him up overnight, and there’s an extensive photo gallery of his shop.[/quote]
Parker Lewis lives in Osaka and said that he recently quit dealing with gaijin because people were buying his frames and marking them up and selling them abroad.[/quote]
It would have to have been mighty recently, because this dude’s thread is from April.
Honestly, I hate expensive stuff just as much as you, but the fact is they charge what they can get for the frames. Of course they could sell them for less, but they have no reason to. If their prices are too high, people will buy elsewhere and they will have to bring their prices down. But since their prices don’t seem to be coming down, it would appear that people view them as a decent option and feel they are getting their money’s worth.
Thats about it.
People in Japan pay a premium for stuff they cant easily get there too.
Its the way the world works.
People dont sell NJS frames for a hobby. It aint that fun.
The problem with saying that they’re “over-priced” is that it implies that they’re charging more than the market can bear for them, and so you get replies like that from SteveSentMe, who quite accurately points out that both sellers are only asking current fair market value. Strictly speaking, they’re not over-priced, they’re just too expensive for you.
I personally think that many or most of those frames are a terrible value. When you consider the cost of buying one of these frames, whose condition is questionable (don’t be surprised if a dented frame doesn’t pass an equipment check at your local velodrome), vs. the cost of getting something new or even custom, they come out way behind. There was a time when buying a used keirin frame was the cheapest way to get a hand-built steel track bike, and that’s why they took off in popularity. Now that they’re so expensive and considered by so many to be a necessary barrier-to-entry to the fixed gear scene, the luster should be all but gone.
I suppose my definition of over-priced is not the one used in text books or anything. When I say overpriced, I mean when comparing the quality of the product you are getting to the price you are paying. You certainly can get hand built, gorgeous, lugged track frames elsewhere for about the same new as you pay for a not very uncommon NJS bike that has been wrecked, thats why I would say they are over-priced, so really I should be saying “it is a bad deal to buy an NJS frame at the costs they generally run now if you care at all about the condition, safety and performance of the frame you ride.”
But see…most of the people dont care about condition, safety and performance as much as they do the fact that its an NJS track frame.
Honestly, i think we all know that half the people that have them bought them because of the fashion of japanese track frames.
So that is something you cant get from other, maybe more logically priced, builders.
So the market for NJS bikes is what it is and some people are charging way too much (keirinculture) while others charge a more fair price.
When i sold all my frames i just put them on ebay. I usually just start the bidding at what i paid for it and let fate take its course.
Worked fine for me and I made a lot of money and didnt have to feel like i was gouging people. They made the price what it was, not me.
[quote=“deathhare”]But see…most of the people dont care about condition, safety and performance as much as they do the fact that its an NJS track frame.
Honestly, i think we all know that half the people that have them bought them because of the fashion of japanese track frames.
So that is something you cant get from other, maybe more logically priced, builders.
So the market for NJS bikes is what it is and some people are charging way too much (keirinculture) while others charge a more fair price.
When i sold all my frames i just put them on ebay. I usually just start the bidding at what i paid for it and let fate take its course.
Worked fine for me and I made a lot of money and didnt have to feel like i was gouging people. They made the price what it was, not me.[/quote]
yeah…I figure if it’s off ebay, it’s all good. I just wonder how people justify spending 1200+ dollars on a wrecked/possibly reconditioned NJS frame off those blogspot accounts, but i guess the fashion issue makes sense. The NJS stamp puts the frame in a category of their own.
On a tangent: what are you riding these days deathhare? I remember you had a gorgeous naga (I think) is that still the whip? (I’m not trying to prove a point or anything, I really liked that bike, but you said you ebayed your frames)
Im on the nagasawa.
Ill hang on to it for awhile i think. It fits me better than any ive had so far.
My frame was not in a crash and not restored. It is in great original condition. No deathtraps here. I am pleased with my purchase. This is what worked for me. Find what works for you.
P.S. Show me a built up bike with similar components to mine in the condition of mine for under a grand, as many of you feel there are plenty of them on the market.
[quote=“ted”]My frame was not in a crash and not restored. It is in great original condition. No deathtraps here. I am pleased with my purchase. This is what worked for me. Find what works for you.
P.S. Show me a built up bike with similar components to mine in the condition of mine for under a grand, as many of you feel there are plenty of them on the market.
[/quote]“plenty of us” was me, and you just have to keep your eyes peeled on sffixed, CL and velospace and it’s not hard to find em.
How do you know it wasnt crashed? In all honesty, you can get sugino 75s for less than 200 with a chainring, a nitto sterm is 90, but I’ve seen em go for 60, bars are like 45, 85 for a seatpost, 250 for DA’s to open pros, and your pick of saddle, kashimax is maybe 60 used. So, if you built it up piece by piece you would barely go over a grand if you dropped 500 on a frame, but take out some of the NJS and factor in people sell complete bikes cheaper than parts generally and you have a built up bike under a grand. Besides, I didnt say YOUR bike could be found for under a grand.
You’re being pretty presumptuous here.
p.s. I’m glad you’re still riding it deathhare, it was a classy looking ride and it’s probably only going to appreciate in value. If you ever decide to sell those wheels, hit a brotha up 
250 for DAs to Open Pros, butted spokes, hand built?! Not happening. I’m just saying, I will believe that you can get a complete build with an NJS Stamp when I see it (for under a grand). And even if you do find one, how do you know it hasn’t been crashed? And there are a lot of other variables… Don’t discount the blogs so much. They have their place and they have their good deals and not so good deals. I am happy with the deal I struck with Gabe and I would recommend anyone to do business with him because of the quality of the frames he sells. I personally know 3 very happy customers. I’m still sticking with, you get what you pay for. Product, service, etc.
PS my stem was only $75 brand new. Saddle $40 CL find. Bars $45. etc. It all ads up…
those panasonics still look the freshest. if anything is going on with buying some i would be very interested.
[quote=“ted”]250 for DAs to Open Pros, butted spokes, hand built?! Not happening. I’m just saying, I will believe that you can get a complete build with an NJS Stamp when I see it (for under a grand). And even if you do find one, how do you know it hasn’t been crashed? And there are a lot of other variables… Don’t discount the blogs so much. They have their place and they have their good deals and not so good deals. I am happy with the deal I struck with Gabe and I would recommend anyone to do business with him because of the quality of the frames he sells. I personally know 3 very happy customers. I’m still sticking with, you get what you pay for. Product, service, etc.
PS my stem was only $75 brand new. Saddle $40 CL find. Bars $45. etc. It all ads up…[/quote]
I know theres a place in portland that does DA7600 to araya tubs for like 315 I think, and I know theres another place where you can get DA7600’s to OP’s handbuilt for something like 314. Someone posted a link recently to the wheel builder. The frames on those blogs are often crashed and re finished, so enlighten me as to how you know your frame hasnt been crashed? I’m not discounting the blogs, I’m saying that I cant comprehend why people are willing to pay 1000+ dollars for 4 or 500 dollar frames and the quality of the frames you are getting due to use and potential damage is not on par with the price to be paid. What you (usually) are getting is a wrecked, possibly repainted, frame someone found which I dont see to be worth the price tag.
