Souplesse Casings and Bike Soup - The Tire Thread

I, too, have a penchant for slashing up supple tires

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Another dual purpose Heine tire performed poorly over at BRR. I really need to stop Jan-posting, maybe as a new year’s resolution.

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I’m really curious how closely this method does in fact correlate with the real world. The lack of proper ramping on the RH knobs seems like it should be a hindrance. Maybe that is not the case.

Things seem to get especially murky with the use of a tube. On the one hand, it would seem to keep the testing “standardized” by always using a tube, but with some tires the claim is that they are truly optimized for tubeless use and the penalty for using a tube can be relatively greater than running a tube in a tire that it’s built for.

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I understood the novel concept for “noise canceling technology” was the application to bicycle tires since road noise is a well developed area of study for automotive tire manufacturers and asphalt development. But, I had thought it was a novel concept.

Guess everything really has already been invented.

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The testing from Tom A and Poertner seems to support the idea of strong correlation with roller tests and real world results. Relative to each other and not in absolute wattage sense. Some (most?) people could feel and determine a difference between EL and Standard casing Rene Herse tires. Which would indicate a lower bound of ~12-15% difference in BRR tested wattage.

I think the knob design is a hedge for on-road performance specifically for the BQ style rolldown testing. They don’t roll as well on non-flat surfaces and also don’t have great traction - although Panaracer’s single compound rubber is probably an equal detriment here. So I would think you’re correct in the hinderance to good roller test performance. But if riding off-road the result is probably closer to the truth than rolldown tests on pavement.

The tube issue is significantly more complicated and fascinating. The BRR article is fairly surprising both in the issues discussed and the implications for the rest of his testing.

Another point to consider is that the margin of error is bigger when tires are tested with inner tubes. This is because not all tires have the same kind of “greasiness” or texture on the inside of the tires; rolling resistance will be lower when there is less movement between the inner tube and tire. The next complication is that when the same inner tube is used in a “greasy” tire, it will take some of that “pollution” onto the next tire and affecting the results by a couple of tenths of a watt.

The American Classic tires I have were fairly slick on the inside being they had a layer of rubber over the weave that seemed to actually have mold release compound or something on it, so I suspect they would test worse with a tube than something from Panaracer with actual open tread weave inside. How much this matters outside of relative ranking with other tires is open to interpretation.

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I haven’t been following along with the BRR/RH beef, but it seems like the same shit DCRainMaker and JPLama were stirring up with their power meter accuracy tests.

None of the testing I am seeing would be statistically relevant in any industry that actually performs testing. That’s probably because they largely include a human body in the loop, which causes all sorts of error.

I get the feeling that if BRR made a roller that was 1/24th the diameter of the Earth, JH still wouldn’t accept the results.

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I guess I’m still having a hard time wrapping my brain around a ramped vs unramped knob and how it affects actual rolling resistance.

I’m defaulting to the old MTB position that a ramped knob must (or so I would think) roll faster as the leading edge does not deform as much or transitions better as it contacts the surface it’s on. Maybe the drum test kindof proves this to be less important?

The RH knobs certainly “look” slow compared to a more “modern” tread. But perhaps that’s not nearly as much of a contributing factor as compound and casing.

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hello I have nothing to add save a low quality shitpost:

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So talcum power on tubes is a bad thing?

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Sounds like it is. Another old roadie myth gets busted?

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Next they’ll tell me that shaving your legs doesn’t save you watts

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I thought talc was to aid in preventing pinches when mounting the tires

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Glue the tube into your clinchers for lowest RR :rofl:

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keep the tube from processing when you hit the brakes too, was one of the old stories I heard about it

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Also helps prevent the tube from becoming one with the tire so they can be separated for a flat repair in the pre tire milk days.

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yeah ability to slide around was what my oldhead taught me. procession was one example of potential issue, friction was another especially with cheaper stuff. who knows though. one time i had to shut him and another ace wrench up by turning the switch from 3x to 2x on a shifter. and they are both legitimately very talented mechanics

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I effectively did this once with a very freak set of conditions. Used a tire that had once been used tubeless, with a tube. Remnants of dried gizz meant that the tube effectively stuck to the tire carcass, unbeknownst to me. Before the race we had to wash our wheels with a soapy mixture of algae killer, to stop the spread of rock-snot, which was not yet in the local rivers. 3/4s the way thru the race there was a small stream at the base of a 20 minute granny gear climb. The water in the stream re-lubed the wheel, the tire slipped on the rim and took the tube with it, ripping the valve stem out. This happened while riding uphill.

Apologies if I have already shared this anecdote. I am old and demented.

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on the other end of the spectrum, when i had a summer internship in boston in college, i bought a lockup bike that i could park at the transit stop. it was a three-speed (of which only one worked) cruiser type thing. steel rims. just an absolute piece of garbage.

so i naturally got a flat rear tire, but i only needed the bike for another two weeks before i left the city. and i was cheap and lazy and didn’t want to buy a tube. so i just rode it flat for that time. obviously the tube ejected itself and i ripped it out.

one day it rained, and in addition to having steel rims, i discovered that when the brakes DID engage, the wheel would spin inside the tire, thus not slowing me down at all. this would also happen in mosquito’s direction (uphill). once i figured this out it was actually quite fun to do burnouts inside my own tire.

i left that bike under the porch of the house and the next time i was in boston a few years later it was gone. RIP garbage bike.

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A+ anecdotes!

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Don’t be like that Jeff, you’re not demented

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